Impulse Expansion
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Top end, roll back yes, not the same reason though, can happen any phase of flight, happened on the 717 in USA a few times, cause unknown in many cases, engine manufacturer looking into it, FAA and NTSB interested naturally, CASA not interested in it, though what would you expect?
Just one of many problems with 717 that will be the subject of AD's over the coming months. Probably why Boeing will be scrapping production of the 717 and going all 737NG.
Just one of many problems with 717 that will be the subject of AD's over the coming months. Probably why Boeing will be scrapping production of the 717 and going all 737NG.
Big Jan,
Rollback is an uncommanded reduction in thrust.
Basically, its a slow reduction of N1 and associated with a high TGT and failure of the engine to respond to thrust lever movement. It is caused by build up of ice on the guide vanes and progressively chokes the engine
.
If it's true about the B717 problems then it sounds like an AD will be required for a more efficient engine anti-ice system.
Years ago a Ansett 146 had a close call when all 4 engines Rolledback near Mt Magnet WA. I forget all the details, but from memory they successfully diverted to Meeka.
I hate it when I forget a good story.
Oh well, hoss
Rollback is an uncommanded reduction in thrust.
Basically, its a slow reduction of N1 and associated with a high TGT and failure of the engine to respond to thrust lever movement. It is caused by build up of ice on the guide vanes and progressively chokes the engine
. If it's true about the B717 problems then it sounds like an AD will be required for a more efficient engine anti-ice system.
Years ago a Ansett 146 had a close call when all 4 engines Rolledback
near Mt Magnet WA. I forget all the details, but from memory they successfully diverted to Meeka.I hate it when I forget a good story.
Oh well, hoss
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Hoss, this is not caused by ice protection, the 717 ice protection is ok, you can have roll back caused by faulty fuel management computers,logic etc, as per what the engine manufacturer and FAA are saying. This is a unique event, not traceable at the moment, happens in any flight regime and can occur in VMC.
We'll see what the engine manufacturer comes up with.
We'll see what the engine manufacturer comes up with.
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Crikey Frank
Why the antipulse717 sentiment. The a/c performs well there are some probs associated with the EEC however she certainly has no icing problems. I would say all airliners have their little problems even your 737ng(chuckle). I believe new versions are under study and that an order for up to 50 i think by an US airline are currently under production.
Why the antipulse717 sentiment. The a/c performs well there are some probs associated with the EEC however she certainly has no icing problems. I would say all airliners have their little problems even your 737ng(chuckle). I believe new versions are under study and that an order for up to 50 i think by an US airline are currently under production.
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thumpa, wake up, if you read my above post I said the ice protection system is ok. This is new problem, I'm not bashing Impulse, fact I've said nothing about Impulse. The regulator here is washing it's hands of a potentially fatal flaw in an aeroplane that the USA authorities are taking very seriously. The more people that know about it, maybe more can be said in the right ears.
I would suggest you lose the insecurity about something that is becoming a known problem, and channel your energy into learning more about the aeroplane - if that is, you fly it.
I would suggest you lose the insecurity about something that is becoming a known problem, and channel your energy into learning more about the aeroplane - if that is, you fly it.
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Franky Franky
Why all the hostility? Chill out mate. I am secure however I do detect a certain amount of paranoia on your part. Quite easy to detect. Please try not to get personal.
Comeon take a few deep breaths. That a boy!!!
Next
Why all the hostility? Chill out mate. I am secure however I do detect a certain amount of paranoia on your part. Quite easy to detect. Please try not to get personal.
Comeon take a few deep breaths. That a boy!!!
Next
Back to the original post "Impulse Expansion".
Look on the bright side,QF could get shakey about the B717's,get rid of them and give you guys/girls the 733's and 734's as a replacement
.
I'm sure the other Qantaslink Pilots will understand
.
Safe flying, oops I mean gliding
hoss
Look on the bright side,QF could get shakey about the B717's,get rid of them and give you guys/girls the 733's and 734's as a replacement
.I'm sure the other Qantaslink Pilots will understand
.Safe flying, oops I mean gliding
hoss
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Frank,
Before you start lumping the 717 in the trash i suggest you poke around some of the -800 history in Aus since they have arrived. There have been several well hushed up occurences. By the way the -800 flies well on one engine as well.
Before you start lumping the 717 in the trash i suggest you poke around some of the -800 history in Aus since they have arrived. There have been several well hushed up occurences. By the way the -800 flies well on one engine as well.
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2farcanard,
Be very carefull my friend, a quick check of a database suggests no 800 occurrence of significance that the ATSB and CASA don't already know about. All of the 717 occurrences were reported by Impulse which is great. What you are suggesting is NG occurrences that have occurred here have not been reported.
Both of the airlines which operate the NG here in Australia do a great job of reporting occurrences on the NG series, infact both airlines actively work at times to assist each other as to what things they come across with the NG, which I can't say on the Pprune.
To suggets that either VB and or QF are not reporting NG occurrences is blatently wrong my friend. The safety department at VB and QF have an excellent reporting culture
As for tossing the 717 in the bin, I never suggested that at all. Fact is, and listen very carefully, as you may let defence get in the way of what you interpret, the FAA and the NTSB and the authorities here are becoming aware of a serious problem on this type. CASA were notified about it his week.
So like thumpa, lose the defenciveness, read my post clearly a few times to take note of the fact I aint bagging the 717 or Impulse, but simply stating a factual problem which Impulse know about and are taking steps to fix as well as the FAA and engine manufacturer and NTSB and then, only then, will you stop and think about posting some sort of little chest beating post.
I am alot closer to knowing the facts about this problem and other occurrences on other jet aircraft within this country, so don't tell me stories of covered up NG problems unless you can qualify the source, the date, the time, the place, the PIC, the airline and the EXACT nature of the defect, and then, if you have factual data, don't play charade on Pprune, go to the regulator and dob the operator in, but be precise on your facts.
Be very carefull my friend, a quick check of a database suggests no 800 occurrence of significance that the ATSB and CASA don't already know about. All of the 717 occurrences were reported by Impulse which is great. What you are suggesting is NG occurrences that have occurred here have not been reported.
Both of the airlines which operate the NG here in Australia do a great job of reporting occurrences on the NG series, infact both airlines actively work at times to assist each other as to what things they come across with the NG, which I can't say on the Pprune.
To suggets that either VB and or QF are not reporting NG occurrences is blatently wrong my friend. The safety department at VB and QF have an excellent reporting culture
As for tossing the 717 in the bin, I never suggested that at all. Fact is, and listen very carefully, as you may let defence get in the way of what you interpret, the FAA and the NTSB and the authorities here are becoming aware of a serious problem on this type. CASA were notified about it his week.
So like thumpa, lose the defenciveness, read my post clearly a few times to take note of the fact I aint bagging the 717 or Impulse, but simply stating a factual problem which Impulse know about and are taking steps to fix as well as the FAA and engine manufacturer and NTSB and then, only then, will you stop and think about posting some sort of little chest beating post.
I am alot closer to knowing the facts about this problem and other occurrences on other jet aircraft within this country, so don't tell me stories of covered up NG problems unless you can qualify the source, the date, the time, the place, the PIC, the airline and the EXACT nature of the defect, and then, if you have factual data, don't play charade on Pprune, go to the regulator and dob the operator in, but be precise on your facts.
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Frank,
As i have no alliance with either fleet type but friends at both, my intention was to square up the perceived idea that the 717 is the only new fleet type having teething problems.
Yes both types, as with all new types of aircraft have had their share of problems. Both deligently reported to the regulators by their operators but not reported on by the press, hence hushed up. I did not mean to infer otherwise.
As you so eloquently stated there is nothing on the NG'S that the regulators 'don't already know about'.
For someone who claims to have nothing against the 717 or Impulse your post seem to be slightly one sided.
Tell us some problems with the -800 if you want to keep it even handed.
By the way if you started your first post by favouring the 717 over the -800 i would be sticking up for the -800.
Winglett to straighten the post. My mates have varying stories but the upshot is that not much will happen till the second quarter
the buzz word i've been told is "consolidation".
As i have no alliance with either fleet type but friends at both, my intention was to square up the perceived idea that the 717 is the only new fleet type having teething problems.
Yes both types, as with all new types of aircraft have had their share of problems. Both deligently reported to the regulators by their operators but not reported on by the press, hence hushed up. I did not mean to infer otherwise.
As you so eloquently stated there is nothing on the NG'S that the regulators 'don't already know about'.
For someone who claims to have nothing against the 717 or Impulse your post seem to be slightly one sided.
Tell us some problems with the -800 if you want to keep it even handed.
By the way if you started your first post by favouring the 717 over the -800 i would be sticking up for the -800.
Winglett to straighten the post. My mates have varying stories but the upshot is that not much will happen till the second quarter
the buzz word i've been told is "consolidation".
Last edited by 2FarCanard; 21st Jan 2003 at 07:55.
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Contrary to what frank has stated, CASA and the ATSB are VERY interested in the EEC issues on the B717. High level meetings are being conducted as we type to reach a solution. As frank quite rightly said, Rolls are conducting investigations as to the actual problem and possible fixes.
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The cause of the EEC problems has apparantly been isolated by Rolls/BMW/Boeing.
EEC's currently are being checked for specific types of faults logged within the CFDS upon each turnaround. Some accumulated faults can degrade an individual EEC's operation to the point where a real problem (in the other EEC) prevents that EEC being used as a failsafe - sorry, a simplistic explanation of an involved process...
Upgraded software apparantly due in March, designed to solve the problem once & for all.
Love to know source of shutdown 717 production rumours! Ex AN engineer within 'Pulse who was involved in 1st of type introduction of both F50 and A320 reckons the 717 sh***s over both of them in terms of reliability etc
How many double flameouts were there initially on the F50 before about '50 engine mods' (not my quote) solved the problem? I'm sure plenty of ex AN guys/gals recall those...
EEC's currently are being checked for specific types of faults logged within the CFDS upon each turnaround. Some accumulated faults can degrade an individual EEC's operation to the point where a real problem (in the other EEC) prevents that EEC being used as a failsafe - sorry, a simplistic explanation of an involved process...
Upgraded software apparantly due in March, designed to solve the problem once & for all.
Love to know source of shutdown 717 production rumours! Ex AN engineer within 'Pulse who was involved in 1st of type introduction of both F50 and A320 reckons the 717 sh***s over both of them in terms of reliability etc
How many double flameouts were there initially on the F50 before about '50 engine mods' (not my quote) solved the problem? I'm sure plenty of ex AN guys/gals recall those...
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Nicely put Fluffy Bunny. Thanks to a VERY professional team of engineers the resistor problem has been SORTED. Frank to be honest Id be surprised to find that you fly anything more than a 152 in the circuit at Bankstown. Your antiPulse sentiments just show your level of unprofessionalism and child like interpretation of issues.
I have never seen such a bad humoured post. Take a good look at yourself Frank. You are an embarresment to our industry and to yourself. Remember little mate, that airmanship does not stop when you get out of the plane!!
I have never seen such a bad humoured post. Take a good look at yourself Frank. You are an embarresment to our industry and to yourself. Remember little mate, that airmanship does not stop when you get out of the plane!!
Last edited by Douglas Mcdonnell; 23rd Jan 2003 at 00:23.
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Douglas McDonnell, when have I displayed anti pulse sentiments, if you read my post on the other page it's anything but. I think I mentioned things like Impulse are great in getting onto the problem, Impulse are great in reporting the problem. Everyones looking at fixing the problem.
Do you want me to tell you where I work? You know I can't do that on this forum. I moved on from 152's about 12 years ago when I started flying charter and night freight, so no, I don't fly 152's at YSBK. Tell you what though, have alot of respect for the people that are currently flying 152's at YSBK, must be a very hard way to earn a buck these days.
Unfortunately with email and forums, ones interpretation of whats written, is just that. Nothing I have written has been written in angst, more mirth that anything else and a bit of knowledge thats not readily available to the general flying community.
I think you should settle down a bit and get off your high horse.
Do you want me to tell you where I work? You know I can't do that on this forum. I moved on from 152's about 12 years ago when I started flying charter and night freight, so no, I don't fly 152's at YSBK. Tell you what though, have alot of respect for the people that are currently flying 152's at YSBK, must be a very hard way to earn a buck these days.
Unfortunately with email and forums, ones interpretation of whats written, is just that. Nothing I have written has been written in angst, more mirth that anything else and a bit of knowledge thats not readily available to the general flying community.
I think you should settle down a bit and get off your high horse.
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Franky, Franky, Franky (Too many Hill St Blues reruns)
Mate,
You paint yourself as some sort of guru who knows all about everything.
What a load of cr@p!
Your statement that there have been four or five uncommanded engine shutdowns on the 717 in the last 12 months is cr@p.
I happen to know the facts so, as you demanded in another of your previous posts
Your other assertion of the many problems that will be the subject of AD's that will ensure boeing will shut down production of the 717 is laughable.
What Problems ?
12 years ago you were flying 152's.
Gee mate, with all that experience in the intervening years you must be up there with Chuck Yeager as far as experience goes and I'm sure Mick Toller calls on you for advice.
Wingletts old chap,
None of the tech crew on the 717 know what the future holds on expansion.All I can say is that there are quite a few sweating on a Brisbane base and are hoping that expansion would mean that it would open as a base.
Mate,
You paint yourself as some sort of guru who knows all about everything.
I am a lot closer to knowing the facts about this problem and other occurrences on other jet aircraft within this country."
Your statement that there have been four or five uncommanded engine shutdowns on the 717 in the last 12 months is cr@p.
I happen to know the facts so, as you demanded in another of your previous posts
so don't tell me stories of covered up NG problems unless you can qualify the source, the date, the time, the place, the PIC, the airline and the EXACT nature of the defect
What Problems ?
12 years ago you were flying 152's.
Gee mate, with all that experience in the intervening years you must be up there with Chuck Yeager as far as experience goes and I'm sure Mick Toller calls on you for advice.
Wingletts old chap,
None of the tech crew on the 717 know what the future holds on expansion.All I can say is that there are quite a few sweating on a Brisbane base and are hoping that expansion would mean that it would open as a base.
Last edited by mppgf; 27th Jan 2003 at 02:14.