Zero Tolerance On '89. Period.
Woomera,
We (ATC) has our own dispute back in 1989. I for one believe that the consolidation of sectors out of Sydney had as much to do with industrial payback as it did with the mighty dollar. Even today, I think that some managers are still out for revenge, but then again I suppose one's viepoint depends on which side of the fence one sits on.
Why not have a separate D&G 89 arena, like the D&G Reporting Points, D&G Aircrew Notices, D&G General Aviation and D&G Questions. I for one wouldn't visit or play in the arena, but others may choose to do so for "sport" or any other reasons.
This option allows those that want to partake the opportunity to do so without censureship and you (as moderator) can move any ill- or mis-placed posts into the correct are(n)a.
For consideration.
Missy
We (ATC) has our own dispute back in 1989. I for one believe that the consolidation of sectors out of Sydney had as much to do with industrial payback as it did with the mighty dollar. Even today, I think that some managers are still out for revenge, but then again I suppose one's viepoint depends on which side of the fence one sits on.
Why not have a separate D&G 89 arena, like the D&G Reporting Points, D&G Aircrew Notices, D&G General Aviation and D&G Questions. I for one wouldn't visit or play in the arena, but others may choose to do so for "sport" or any other reasons.
This option allows those that want to partake the opportunity to do so without censureship and you (as moderator) can move any ill- or mis-placed posts into the correct are(n)a.
For consideration.
Missy
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missy
Thank you very much for your thoughts
PPRuNe??
From Danny;
I had forgotten about your own dispute and PPRuNe is available to both sides and is dedicated to providing the platform for discussion of the effects of that one as well.
Now as distinct from then, the agenda can not be controlled by whoever has the most influence or access to spin doctors.
For spin doctors the internet has become their greatest blessing, at the same time as their greatest curse and defrocker.
You can get your point out and may in fact be able to influence the thinking of the decision makers and others who monitor these halls, at least the smart ones who do anyway.
The effective use of this very important and respected international Forum for your point of view, demands that it continue to be respectful of each others view and professional in behaviour lest it be consigned as an irrelevancy.
For that to happen, a little restraint is called for some times, in order that the discussion does not degenerate into a slanging match and turn off for everyone.
D & G '89 has been tried already, without unforunately a noticeable reduction in emails, writs or angst.
PPRuNe Dunnunda and its various long suffering mderators has never censored in the manner that is apparently felt here, incorrectly by definition in fact, i.e. "to try and impose our view of the world or subject." by supporting one side or 'tother.
We have recieved about equal numbers of emails accusing us of
supporting the others, so we must getting it about right.
Some of those that do, often confuse censorship with propaganda = an organised programme of publicity, selected information etc., used to propagate a doctrine, practise etc.
Sorry haven't got the time, inclination or smarts for that one.
censure = criticise harshly; reprove; expression of diapproval
(often confused with censor = an official authorised to examine printed matter or media before public release, and to suppress any parts on the grounds of obscenity, public decency, and in PPRuNe parlance, anything likely to be defamatory, slanderous or libelous )
absolutely yes, those who cross the bounds of decency and obscenity
Unfortunately some of those who have been censured, confuse that action with censorship/propaganda.
Enough of semantics.
We do not need another D & G '89er forum, all that can and needs to be discussed, can be done here.
You can and should discuss and/or bring to our attention any matter that effects us in aviation, there will be no censorship beyond the above, nor any attempt to manipulate the discussion for propaganda purposes,
Your argument or point must stand on its own and you should expect even welcome an alternative point of view. That's how we all learn about each other and negotiate a solution.
You can expect censure should you step beyond the pale, and we all know the Lat. 'n Long. of that place
A very fresh example, if I may, of how really difficult it is, to know exctly where that Lat. 'n Long. is.
I bought Mrs Woomera (of 30 years, a happy marriage, despite including the usual war, pestilence and famine) a personalised number plate for her new car, as one of her Christmas presents.
"BRMMSTICK".
Sorta Harry Potter thingy and a recognition of her parenting and husbandry skills. She also has a quirky and fun sense of humour, I thought, as well as the respect and love of our friends for the way she has brought up her husband and children.
It was witty enough, I thought, but being a serial coward, I took the precaution of checking it out with our adult daughters, son and close friends who all thought it was very clever, funny and so her. So far so good.
So Christmas eve comes, down to the Licensing centre to collect the new plates and return the old.
Tomorrow, unless I am given a last minute reprieve, it will be down to the Licensing centre to retrieve the old plates and put the new ones in storage.
Moral of the story, you only think you know what others may think or do, even when you have been together all those years.
Think about it.
Thank you very much for your thoughts
PPRuNe??
From Danny;
PPRuNe started out as a hobby but has grown into an organisation dedicated to providing the ability for anyone with an interest and something worthwhile to say, a platform directly to the people who make the aviation world go round. Use it but please don't abuse it. It can be addictive, so be warned!
Now as distinct from then, the agenda can not be controlled by whoever has the most influence or access to spin doctors.
For spin doctors the internet has become their greatest blessing, at the same time as their greatest curse and defrocker.
You can get your point out and may in fact be able to influence the thinking of the decision makers and others who monitor these halls, at least the smart ones who do anyway.
The effective use of this very important and respected international Forum for your point of view, demands that it continue to be respectful of each others view and professional in behaviour lest it be consigned as an irrelevancy.
For that to happen, a little restraint is called for some times, in order that the discussion does not degenerate into a slanging match and turn off for everyone.
D & G '89 has been tried already, without unforunately a noticeable reduction in emails, writs or angst.
PPRuNe Dunnunda and its various long suffering mderators has never censored in the manner that is apparently felt here, incorrectly by definition in fact, i.e. "to try and impose our view of the world or subject." by supporting one side or 'tother.
We have recieved about equal numbers of emails accusing us of
supporting the others, so we must getting it about right.
Some of those that do, often confuse censorship with propaganda = an organised programme of publicity, selected information etc., used to propagate a doctrine, practise etc.
Sorry haven't got the time, inclination or smarts for that one.
censure = criticise harshly; reprove; expression of diapproval
(often confused with censor = an official authorised to examine printed matter or media before public release, and to suppress any parts on the grounds of obscenity, public decency, and in PPRuNe parlance, anything likely to be defamatory, slanderous or libelous )
absolutely yes, those who cross the bounds of decency and obscenity
Unfortunately some of those who have been censured, confuse that action with censorship/propaganda.
Enough of semantics.
We do not need another D & G '89er forum, all that can and needs to be discussed, can be done here.
You can and should discuss and/or bring to our attention any matter that effects us in aviation, there will be no censorship beyond the above, nor any attempt to manipulate the discussion for propaganda purposes,
Your argument or point must stand on its own and you should expect even welcome an alternative point of view. That's how we all learn about each other and negotiate a solution.
You can expect censure should you step beyond the pale, and we all know the Lat. 'n Long. of that place
A very fresh example, if I may, of how really difficult it is, to know exctly where that Lat. 'n Long. is.
I bought Mrs Woomera (of 30 years, a happy marriage, despite including the usual war, pestilence and famine) a personalised number plate for her new car, as one of her Christmas presents.
"BRMMSTICK".
Sorta Harry Potter thingy and a recognition of her parenting and husbandry skills.
She also has a quirky and fun sense of humour, I thought, as well as the respect and love of our friends for the way she has brought up her husband and children.It was witty enough, I thought, but being a serial coward, I took the precaution of checking it out with our adult daughters, son and close friends who all thought it was very clever, funny and so her. So far so good.
So Christmas eve comes, down to the Licensing centre to collect the new plates and return the old.
Tomorrow, unless I am given a last minute reprieve, it will be down to the Licensing centre to retrieve the old plates and put the new ones in storage.
Moral of the story, you only think you know what others may think or do, even when you have been together all those years.
Think about it.
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Yep "CENSORSHIP" at it's best I feel!!!!!!!!!
Typical Ozzie reaction with the support of "the towers". If you can't educate (or can't be bothered) BAN IT/LEGISLATE THEIR RIGHTS AWAY, very Australian.
THE ONLY DEMOCRATIC COMMUNIST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD
So now if I'm born in '89, was in Oz in '89, mention '89, drink an '89 red or any other F@#$%ing thing to do with '89 I'm subject to "censorship"
Woomera you can put it anyway you like it is CENSORSHIP, like the forces on active duty or in jail. Every letter is opened and vetted.
If you had any balls you would just delete the offenders and say nothing, to stir the subject up like you have done in this post smacks of a lack of integrity.
OK I'm off to the sin bin, I've said my bit!
Typical Ozzie reaction with the support of "the towers". If you can't educate (or can't be bothered) BAN IT/LEGISLATE THEIR RIGHTS AWAY, very Australian.
THE ONLY DEMOCRATIC COMMUNIST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD
So now if I'm born in '89, was in Oz in '89, mention '89, drink an '89 red or any other F@#$%ing thing to do with '89 I'm subject to "censorship"
Woomera you can put it anyway you like it is CENSORSHIP, like the forces on active duty or in jail. Every letter is opened and vetted.
If you had any balls you would just delete the offenders and say nothing, to stir the subject up like you have done in this post smacks of a lack of integrity.
OK I'm off to the sin bin, I've said my bit!
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leftfrontside
I don't know which planet you've been on all this time but you must have been absent the day they did the English Comprehension bit of the curriculum.
And no, I'm not going to bin you, I'll let you twist in the breeze.
I don't know which planet you've been on all this time but you must have been absent the day they did the English Comprehension bit of the curriculum.
And no, I'm not going to bin you, I'll let you twist in the breeze.
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Got it in one Woomera, failed "Angerlash" miserably at HSC level but no one to my knowledge has yet decided that anyone even me needs an "A" With Distinction to sit in the front of a 21st Century Jet!
Who in there right mind would consider any decision made by an Australian Court would be not only just but correct?
However unfortunately we are "saddled" with their stupidity.
It doesn't mean we have to agree with it.
What happened to freedom of speech?
Give the guys some slack and jump on the "a@#$&*%^s"
Who in there right mind would consider any decision made by an Australian Court would be not only just but correct?
However unfortunately we are "saddled" with their stupidity.
It doesn't mean we have to agree with it.
What happened to freedom of speech?
Give the guys some slack and jump on the "a@#$&*%^s"
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An objective history of the dispute by Alex Paterson is available on the web.
Appendices include a short history of the AFAP's predecessor, the Australian Air Pilots Association lead by former WW2 RAAF pilot Dick Holt.
Don
Appendices include a short history of the AFAP's predecessor, the Australian Air Pilots Association lead by former WW2 RAAF pilot Dick Holt.
Don
Last edited by Woomera; 29th Dec 2002 at 12:35.
OBJECTIVE???????
I'm always happy to take part in intelligent debate, but that is just PARC backwards!!!
Alex Patterson has a very definite point of view caused by being directly involved in ONE side of the dispute.
He is about as objective as Goering was on the holocaust.
I'm always happy to take part in intelligent debate, but that is just PARC backwards!!!
Alex Patterson has a very definite point of view caused by being directly involved in ONE side of the dispute.
He is about as objective as Goering was on the holocaust.
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I am a little suprised that Alex Patterson would be reccommended as an objective information provider of that time.
Quixote, that is not all the information said website provides.
I'm with Wizofoz, this viewpoint is lopsided
Quixote, that is not all the information said website provides.
I'm with Wizofoz, this viewpoint is lopsided
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Back to the actual thread topic....
Got to say, good call. I find '89 topics occasionally interesting (like the majority, I wasn't involved on either side), but the usual accompanying comments range from boring (self-interest or snide comments) to unacceptable (pure vitriol minus any content).
To Voltaire ("I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to my death your right to say it"), I'd add "but nobody should either have to have it forced down their throat, or be forced to wade through it to get to any interesting stuff".
Good move Woomera, say I.
Got to say, good call. I find '89 topics occasionally interesting (like the majority, I wasn't involved on either side), but the usual accompanying comments range from boring (self-interest or snide comments) to unacceptable (pure vitriol minus any content).
To Voltaire ("I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to my death your right to say it"), I'd add "but nobody should either have to have it forced down their throat, or be forced to wade through it to get to any interesting stuff".
Good move Woomera, say I.
