QF nepotism
Join Date: May 2002
Location: I wish the MOON
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh how i remember chasing the hours in G.A. longing for an airline career and Ansett temporarily did that , unfortunately i now have too much experience and cant get a job, oh and i havnt got HSC that would make me a better pilot im sure , the aviation scene in Australia is a discrace and i will be proud to back my bags and head off shore for a bit of respect , so any jobs out there....
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Dunnunda & Godzone
Age: 74
Posts: 4,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not really comfortable with the nepotism bit especially when it gets down to identifying individuals.
It is not good enough to hide behind the CP of X airlines son as blind freddy will know who that is.
It is neither fair to them nor yourselves to suggest that "mates or family " will get you to somewhere you don't, won't or can't make on your own merits. Most "mates or family" are more aware of your actual abilities than are you and will temper their "promotion" of you accordingly, as otherwise they will have to live with consequences for longer than you may be around. Lets also start by assuming that they are the sort of professionals you would wish to work for in the first instance.
At least in large organisations and I am here to tell you especially in large organisations. Large = more than 10-15.
The negative effect on the rest of the organisations morale and ambitions through a career path are simply not worth it.
I have found in life that your attitude towards the world is mirrored in others attitude towards you. If I was not getting where I wanted to in life at any particular point in time, that was usually the problem.
Have a long hard look in the mirror before you go for that interview or write that CV practice on someone you respect, align your gyros accordingly and do your best.
You will either fit what they are looking for or you will not. It won't be a based on any one thing nor is it a "failure".
There is much deep truth in that famous remark by the wonderful Groucho Marx;
"I wouldn't want to join a club that would have me either"
as there is in "If you want to make your God laugh, tell him your plans."
It is not good enough to hide behind the CP of X airlines son as blind freddy will know who that is.
It is neither fair to them nor yourselves to suggest that "mates or family " will get you to somewhere you don't, won't or can't make on your own merits. Most "mates or family" are more aware of your actual abilities than are you and will temper their "promotion" of you accordingly, as otherwise they will have to live with consequences for longer than you may be around. Lets also start by assuming that they are the sort of professionals you would wish to work for in the first instance.
At least in large organisations and I am here to tell you especially in large organisations. Large = more than 10-15.
The negative effect on the rest of the organisations morale and ambitions through a career path are simply not worth it.
I have found in life that your attitude towards the world is mirrored in others attitude towards you. If I was not getting where I wanted to in life at any particular point in time, that was usually the problem.
Have a long hard look in the mirror before you go for that interview or write that CV practice on someone you respect, align your gyros accordingly and do your best.
You will either fit what they are looking for or you will not. It won't be a based on any one thing nor is it a "failure".
There is much deep truth in that famous remark by the wonderful Groucho Marx;
"I wouldn't want to join a club that would have me either"
as there is in "If you want to make your God laugh, tell him your plans."
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Nulla
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are alot of insightful comments on this thred and I think that everyone can agree with Woomera, however I still am in request of ONE, person that knows someone WITHOUT MENTIONING NAMES, that was turned down by QF, who is a relative of a QF employee and didn't even make it to a psyc test??
Is this unheard of............?
Is this unheard of............?
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: earth
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ramboflyer, there are jobs overseas. Plenty of airlines and airline managers who recognise experience.
As some ex Ansett guys are finding out.
QF wanted experienced pilots with 15,000 plus hours to go off and do a refresher course for English, Maths and Physics because it was so long ago that they did it ??? and then they might get an interview or a chance at the skills test etc.
Guys who are trying to keep their family and life together with casual and part-time jobs being asked to give these up - forgo the income for a couple of months - travel to another city and pay for accommodation and do courses in subjects they are already competent in, and yes, it won't make them a better pilot than their 10 or 11 years incident free experience on a Boeing or Airbus has made them already.
Funnily enough, haven't heard that QF is asking it's current crew with the same experience who did the HSC so long ago to go and get "refreshed"
Of course it's not a level playing field. Try overseas - the pay is much better anyway and experience is recognised.
As some ex Ansett guys are finding out.
QF wanted experienced pilots with 15,000 plus hours to go off and do a refresher course for English, Maths and Physics because it was so long ago that they did it ??? and then they might get an interview or a chance at the skills test etc.
Guys who are trying to keep their family and life together with casual and part-time jobs being asked to give these up - forgo the income for a couple of months - travel to another city and pay for accommodation and do courses in subjects they are already competent in, and yes, it won't make them a better pilot than their 10 or 11 years incident free experience on a Boeing or Airbus has made them already.
Funnily enough, haven't heard that QF is asking it's current crew with the same experience who did the HSC so long ago to go and get "refreshed"
Of course it's not a level playing field. Try overseas - the pay is much better anyway and experience is recognised.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Here and there.
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Luna landing I agree with you on the money that can be earned overseas.
However your thoughts on the education requirements are wrong. QF requires applicants to have HSC or equivalent in english, maths and physics (or a suitable science). If you don't have them, then QF will not look at you.
The refresher courses were for those without the subjects required so as to gain an accreditation and then apply. Nothing to do with how long ago you may have done the exams.
It may seem unfair but as far as I know QF has always had this requirement for new hires. There are quite a few ex AN guys without the HSC subjects that wanted a job and who are now flying for QF, they got off their back sides and did the courses....... good on them!
If you are in the USA, large airlines will not even look at you without a University degree, no matter what your past experience has been.
However your thoughts on the education requirements are wrong. QF requires applicants to have HSC or equivalent in english, maths and physics (or a suitable science). If you don't have them, then QF will not look at you.
The refresher courses were for those without the subjects required so as to gain an accreditation and then apply. Nothing to do with how long ago you may have done the exams.
It may seem unfair but as far as I know QF has always had this requirement for new hires. There are quite a few ex AN guys without the HSC subjects that wanted a job and who are now flying for QF, they got off their back sides and did the courses....... good on them!
If you are in the USA, large airlines will not even look at you without a University degree, no matter what your past experience has been.
Last edited by RaTa; 8th Dec 2002 at 23:59.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: earth
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Facts not "thoughts"
RaTa - this person had SA year 12 equivalent HSC English, Maths and Physics. He had to have it to get into Ansett. It was a minimum requirement there too.
Also not a matter of 'getting off their backside and doing it'. This guy had lost his job and was working 2 casual jobs trying to keep his family together and feed, house and educate his 4 kids. Obviously you've never faced this sort of financial hardship... He was off his backside - 15 hr days @ $16/hour
Also not a matter of 'getting off their backside and doing it'. This guy had lost his job and was working 2 casual jobs trying to keep his family together and feed, house and educate his 4 kids. Obviously you've never faced this sort of financial hardship... He was off his backside - 15 hr days @ $16/hour
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ra Ta,
Actually, QF never had HSC as a requirement until they merged with AA. It was AA's requirement to have HSC or equiv. QF only had "suitable education" as its requirement. (When I rang all those years ago, they said that they wanted Year 10 English, maths physics, etc.)
Actually, QF never had HSC as a requirement until they merged with AA. It was AA's requirement to have HSC or equiv. QF only had "suitable education" as its requirement. (When I rang all those years ago, they said that they wanted Year 10 English, maths physics, etc.)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Here and there.
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Luna landing
I hope your mate's luck changes, however I'm surprised he did not get a look in as there are quite a few in QF who are ex SA (myself included). There are ex AN pilots who have told me they did not have the HSC, they went on a course to get the accreditation.
Betedete
You are wrong, I just checked "Criteria For Employement" from my initial application from the mid 80s and that says "NSW HSC or equivalent" is required. Can't comment about TN.
I hope your mate's luck changes, however I'm surprised he did not get a look in as there are quite a few in QF who are ex SA (myself included). There are ex AN pilots who have told me they did not have the HSC, they went on a course to get the accreditation.
Betedete
You are wrong, I just checked "Criteria For Employement" from my initial application from the mid 80s and that says "NSW HSC or equivalent" is required. Can't comment about TN.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: earth
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Moving the Goal Posts
Sounds like QF get too many applications - so play this silly game of moving the goal posts (or does someone get a commission from people doing all these QF approved courses??)
Anyway, his luck has changed - working overseas now earning more money than he would ever get in QF - paid in US$ into an account anywhere in the world - daily expenses and accommodation plus fares paid back home every six weeks for two weeks.
Luckily there are airlines that recognise experience rather than 'how long ago you did the HSC'....
Anyway, his luck has changed - working overseas now earning more money than he would ever get in QF - paid in US$ into an account anywhere in the world - daily expenses and accommodation plus fares paid back home every six weeks for two weeks.
Luckily there are airlines that recognise experience rather than 'how long ago you did the HSC'....
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Victoria
Age: 62
Posts: 984
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry guys, but wake up and smell the coffee! The saying "it's not what you know, it's who you know" holds true for QF as it does for any other airline, the military, and any other profession for that matter.
It's not fair, but let's face it - if you've got an opportunity why not use it? I'm just p*&&%d off that MY father wasn't CP for QF!! Oh well................
It's not fair, but let's face it - if you've got an opportunity why not use it? I'm just p*&&%d off that MY father wasn't CP for QF!! Oh well................
Join Date: May 2002
Location: North Sydney
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good onya
I would say it is a fair cop that SHAABLAMM'S little boy didn't get an interview with QA? Perhaps you could absorb him in your 'other' flying venture on the south coast!
Why stir up trouble here and cast dispersions on other QA staff just because your own flesh and blood didn't kick a goal?
Why stir up trouble here and cast dispersions on other QA staff just because your own flesh and blood didn't kick a goal?
GoGirl
I think he means aspersions.
The "Australianism" of dispersions was used in the eighteen hundreds and referenced the polite genocide of Aboriginals or their forced removal from lands-common in Gippsland.
I don't think he meant that!
I think he means aspersions.
The "Australianism" of dispersions was used in the eighteen hundreds and referenced the polite genocide of Aboriginals or their forced removal from lands-common in Gippsland.
I don't think he meant that!
Last edited by Gnadenburg; 14th Dec 2002 at 21:38.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: North Sydney
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gnadenburg and GoGirl.
QA is Qantas Airlines and 'dispersions' is a correct word for use here......means to spread light on something.
Not meaning to cast dispersions on you two dillberry's, but it is quite obvious that either of you wouldn't pass the entry reqirements for QA! unless of course you 'were in the know' and could short-circuit the recruiting process by having a dad/mum/uncle in the game; which just happens to be one of the subjects covered in this thread.
Not meaning to cast dispersions on you two dillberry's, but it is quite obvious that either of you wouldn't pass the entry reqirements for QA!
unless of course you 'were in the know' and could short-circuit the recruiting process by having a dad/mum/uncle in the game; which just happens to be one of the subjects covered in this thread.
