Silk Air (Singapore) to employ ex-Ansett drivers.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
"Or is this thread just another 89 thread in disguise (albeit thinly veiled)?
DDuck, please advise the forum of ANY other Aussies you know of - apart from those mentioned - who have recently been advised of their impending employment with Silk Air.
In case YOU hadn't realised, there's also a glut of motor vehicles. But I haven't noticed a remarkable (let alone any) drop in prices there!!
DDuck, please advise the forum of ANY other Aussies you know of - apart from those mentioned - who have recently been advised of their impending employment with Silk Air.
In case YOU hadn't realised, there's also a glut of motor vehicles. But I haven't noticed a remarkable (let alone any) drop in prices there!!
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Kaptin M,
A glut of motor vehicles. ? . Motor vehicles do not choose where they will be sold or for what price.
What on earth gives you the right to judge what fellow pilots are prepared to fly aircraft for.
Your comments are normally based on ignorance and misinformation but mostly anger as a result of past events.
Your comments on this thread take the cake though.
Settle down. You have no credibility left. Even your "friends" that have circulated your picture are having a giggle at you expense.
A glut of motor vehicles. ? . Motor vehicles do not choose where they will be sold or for what price.
What on earth gives you the right to judge what fellow pilots are prepared to fly aircraft for.
Your comments are normally based on ignorance and misinformation but mostly anger as a result of past events.
Your comments on this thread take the cake though.
Settle down. You have no credibility left. Even your "friends" that have circulated your picture are having a giggle at you expense.
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Hey Kapitan M...
I don't know any Aussies that are working for Silkair...and what's more, I don't give really care one way or the other either!!
I still don't see the relevance of what these guys get paid is.
I have many friends working as controllers all around the world, I don't think any less or more of them knowing how much money they get paid, or where they work.
They were offered the job (as was I) and decided that the renumeration was sufficient to leave Australia and work o/s.
Those that didn't leave Oz, had their reasons, and I don't think any less of them for not going...each to his own.
BTW when there is a glut of oil...the price goes down!
I don't know any Aussies that are working for Silkair...and what's more, I don't give really care one way or the other either!!
I still don't see the relevance of what these guys get paid is.
I have many friends working as controllers all around the world, I don't think any less or more of them knowing how much money they get paid, or where they work.
They were offered the job (as was I) and decided that the renumeration was sufficient to leave Australia and work o/s.
Those that didn't leave Oz, had their reasons, and I don't think any less of them for not going...each to his own.
BTW when there is a glut of oil...the price goes down!
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Kaptain M
I make a couple of points and you respond with one word anwsers and a comment about my first language.
Lets try again.
I am not anyones self appointed leader. But you are.( ten squillon posts on the subject qualifies you without peer)
And it is amusing to me that you cannot even see that .
Wear your badge with pride.
Read my post. I never suggested you HELP anyone get a job but can you see by limiting the choices of a group of pilots whatever their background is only going to erode the conditions of EVERYONE. That is what has effectively happened post 89 with the options to return to Australia not availible to the non returnees.(lets try and move on and not lay any blame)
So we now have Virgin 737 captains on half the money of QF captains .(And remmber not all Qf 737 drivers are S@@@s...)
It is a fact that Mikes brother has stopped screening of certain individuals.That can only damage the future contracts in Japan. Sure it makes you feel all warm and fussy at night but it is doing Sweet F A to help our profession.So these same pilots will happily accept lower wages in Aus,eg Aussie Airlines in a couple of years as the attraction of the big bucks is no longer a factor
The anger that you perpetuate is putting more pressure on wages and conditions.Not the S@@bs. They will work for an airline.You cannot and will not stop that fact. Be it on the same pay as you or less.You are doing more damage than they can ever do.
Try standing back for a moment .
So before you launch into tearing my post apart by cutting and pasting show the pprune world that you have matured some over that last 13 years and learnt the powers of reasoning.
I
I make a couple of points and you respond with one word anwsers and a comment about my first language.
Lets try again.
I am not anyones self appointed leader. But you are.( ten squillon posts on the subject qualifies you without peer)
And it is amusing to me that you cannot even see that .
Wear your badge with pride.
Read my post. I never suggested you HELP anyone get a job but can you see by limiting the choices of a group of pilots whatever their background is only going to erode the conditions of EVERYONE. That is what has effectively happened post 89 with the options to return to Australia not availible to the non returnees.(lets try and move on and not lay any blame)
So we now have Virgin 737 captains on half the money of QF captains .(And remmber not all Qf 737 drivers are S@@@s...)
It is a fact that Mikes brother has stopped screening of certain individuals.That can only damage the future contracts in Japan. Sure it makes you feel all warm and fussy at night but it is doing Sweet F A to help our profession.So these same pilots will happily accept lower wages in Aus,eg Aussie Airlines in a couple of years as the attraction of the big bucks is no longer a factor
The anger that you perpetuate is putting more pressure on wages and conditions.Not the S@@bs. They will work for an airline.You cannot and will not stop that fact. Be it on the same pay as you or less.You are doing more damage than they can ever do.
Try standing back for a moment .
So before you launch into tearing my post apart by cutting and pasting show the pprune world that you have matured some over that last 13 years and learnt the powers of reasoning.
I
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
It is a fact that Mikes brother has stopped screening of certain individuals
The FACT is JAPANESE make ALL the decisions in the running of THEIR airlines. So stop oozing your unfounded gossip, meeko.
Another FACT was that the scab pilots in Ansett, under the leadership of Dick Marman, actively worked - for the past 13 years - to keep previously employed (1989) pilots from re-joining Ansett.
Perhaps they THINK that the same tactic is being used against THEM!
It may come as a surprise to you, but ex-Ansett aren't the only ones in the world looking for jobs - however a (small) number of them are "tainted products", and if, as YOU say people were "limiting the choices of a group of pilots" by preventing that group employment, on the world scene their absence would not make an ounce of difference.
There are plenty of others with far greater moral fibre and integrity available.
rectumboy....are any of your posts EVER more than.... pathetic one liners....interspersed with....um....um....
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Gentlemen. this is getting a bit out of hand. Let's tone it down beofre this gets locked.
I must say I've never met Kaptin M, don't know who he is, where he came from or what he eats for breakfast. he writes what he writes and at least leaves no-one in any doubt as to what he thinks.
As for me, I would prefer just to stick to the facts. Which are:
1. In 1989 pilots had a choice (denied to many in the Two Airline Policy years) of whether they wanted to belong to a democratic union or leave it ( and walk away from democratically passed solidarity resolutions).
2. Some pilots decided that for various reasons they would walk away from their former comrades and join forces with others who based their hopes and decisions on a different set of premises.
3. Only the historians will finally work out whether those who left their democratic union behind were ill-led, mis-informed, arrogant, naive or (in one or two isolated cases) greedy. Maybe they were right but the fates conspired against them. We may never know. But as an actual fact we know that those people, and the airline leadership group they joined forces with, somehow managed to be around when 4 carriers, Ansett, Australian, East West and IPEC were dismantled along with many jobs in the tourism industry. I'm sure they did their best to make it all work but it didn't happen.
4. The track record of those pilots is every bit as important to a future employer ( and future fellow employees) as their flying log book and accident history. They have an operating philosophy and set of personal values whose worth to the wider industry is yet to be demonstrated. They may only have been innocent bystanders to the Hawke -led demolition of a once proud industry or they may have been active participants. Who could know? But those who face the prospect of being around them (and their track record) should be aware of the facts.
If Kaptin M has helped bring a few of those facts into the open for dicussion then good luck to him. That is what "FORUM" is about.
That's all.
I must say I've never met Kaptin M, don't know who he is, where he came from or what he eats for breakfast. he writes what he writes and at least leaves no-one in any doubt as to what he thinks.
As for me, I would prefer just to stick to the facts. Which are:
1. In 1989 pilots had a choice (denied to many in the Two Airline Policy years) of whether they wanted to belong to a democratic union or leave it ( and walk away from democratically passed solidarity resolutions).
2. Some pilots decided that for various reasons they would walk away from their former comrades and join forces with others who based their hopes and decisions on a different set of premises.
3. Only the historians will finally work out whether those who left their democratic union behind were ill-led, mis-informed, arrogant, naive or (in one or two isolated cases) greedy. Maybe they were right but the fates conspired against them. We may never know. But as an actual fact we know that those people, and the airline leadership group they joined forces with, somehow managed to be around when 4 carriers, Ansett, Australian, East West and IPEC were dismantled along with many jobs in the tourism industry. I'm sure they did their best to make it all work but it didn't happen.
4. The track record of those pilots is every bit as important to a future employer ( and future fellow employees) as their flying log book and accident history. They have an operating philosophy and set of personal values whose worth to the wider industry is yet to be demonstrated. They may only have been innocent bystanders to the Hawke -led demolition of a once proud industry or they may have been active participants. Who could know? But those who face the prospect of being around them (and their track record) should be aware of the facts.
If Kaptin M has helped bring a few of those facts into the open for dicussion then good luck to him. That is what "FORUM" is about.
That's all.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
Thank you, elektra, your observations are quite correct and indisputable from both sides.
Some of the inoccasional one and two liners really do nothing at all to add any substance to this topic. I don't include you there, meeko, although your last post did appear pretty much a repetition of the earlier one.
There is NO organised conspiracy (as there was within Ansett) to prevent pilots involved in the Dispute from being employed. Without a doubt, the employers of '89 pilots - no matter where in the world they are - are aware of WHY we left TAA, Ansett, East-West, and IPEC, and of the group of pilots we refer to as "scabs".
It hasn't been rammed down their throats and I guess is of little significance to management. However the '89 pilots - speaking collectively - have been good employees, and hence 13 years on are still flying.
Those ABOUT to venture into their first job overseas have yet to go through the range of emotions encountered when they realise that IF they leave Australia to take up a flying career, chances are they will NEVER return back there to live, until retirement.
In spite of their experience, they will still be treated as ab initio pilots by their new employer.
Anyway, back to the "core" of this topic.
Can anyone tell me WHY Silk Air offered the ex-AN A320 people only local contracts?
As Boeing Belly pointed out earlier, once the "novelty" of gaining re-employment wears off, the REALITY that they are being paid less than other expats will have them asking themselves WHY they accepted.
Singapore is an expensive place if a non-Singaporean tries to maintain a similar lifestyle to that which he had before.
SQ tried the SAME stunt back in the early '90's - employing young Brits, Australians, Iranians ( that's YOU, Glad), and other Europeans - all with bonds of SGD225K for 7 years. Initially they were awestruck with the fact that a major airline had selected them to fly BIG ATPL aircraft, however once that novelty wore off, the "run rate" was quite high.
Quite simply, they couldn't exist on the "local" terms - and many, but not all, were single.
So my question is, "WHY?"
Some of the inoccasional one and two liners really do nothing at all to add any substance to this topic. I don't include you there, meeko, although your last post did appear pretty much a repetition of the earlier one.
There is NO organised conspiracy (as there was within Ansett) to prevent pilots involved in the Dispute from being employed. Without a doubt, the employers of '89 pilots - no matter where in the world they are - are aware of WHY we left TAA, Ansett, East-West, and IPEC, and of the group of pilots we refer to as "scabs".
It hasn't been rammed down their throats and I guess is of little significance to management. However the '89 pilots - speaking collectively - have been good employees, and hence 13 years on are still flying.
Those ABOUT to venture into their first job overseas have yet to go through the range of emotions encountered when they realise that IF they leave Australia to take up a flying career, chances are they will NEVER return back there to live, until retirement.
In spite of their experience, they will still be treated as ab initio pilots by their new employer.
Anyway, back to the "core" of this topic.
Can anyone tell me WHY Silk Air offered the ex-AN A320 people only local contracts?
As Boeing Belly pointed out earlier, once the "novelty" of gaining re-employment wears off, the REALITY that they are being paid less than other expats will have them asking themselves WHY they accepted.
Singapore is an expensive place if a non-Singaporean tries to maintain a similar lifestyle to that which he had before.
SQ tried the SAME stunt back in the early '90's - employing young Brits, Australians, Iranians (
that's YOU, Glad), and other Europeans - all with bonds of SGD225K for 7 years. Initially they were awestruck with the fact that a major airline had selected them to fly BIG ATPL aircraft, however once that novelty wore off, the "run rate" was quite high. Quite simply, they couldn't exist on the "local" terms - and many, but not all, were single.
So my question is, "WHY?"
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"Can anyone tell me WHY Silk Air offered the ex-AN A320 people only local contracts"
Why. Because they could. What do QF, MI, SQ, UA, BA, DL.......the list goes on - have in common. They all offer pilots employment on different pay scales.
BTW Kaptin, why are you so fussed about the pay scales at MI. Are you suggesting pilots should continue in unemployment until a job offer comes along with a big "approved by Kaptin M" stamped on it. How do you explain JR running VB on less than half the salary you and your compatriots went on strike over.
Why. Because they could. What do QF, MI, SQ, UA, BA, DL.......the list goes on - have in common. They all offer pilots employment on different pay scales.
BTW Kaptin, why are you so fussed about the pay scales at MI. Are you suggesting pilots should continue in unemployment until a job offer comes along with a big "approved by Kaptin M" stamped on it. How do you explain JR running VB on less than half the salary you and your compatriots went on strike over.
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This sort of s#&*t explains why some good mates of mine had difficulty securing a reasonable freight contract in Asia recently they finally got a really good deal with open ended contracts if they wanted it. With a decent salary and allowances.
They finished up in this position because of S@#%B Bastards moving into the freight scene in Aus
Not only have they stuffed up the show for the guys, they are in big strife with CASA. CP is a S@#$b (see lost AAE wheel thread) The joke down south now is that they call the show "THE CROCODILE FARMERS" as they are up to there armpits in crocs.
Once again a good operation stuffed up by "experts"
With few exceptions I hope Silk Air and the rest realise what a bunch of snivelling second rate operators they are saddling themselves with. You pay peanuts you get MONKEYS
My time is almost nigh in aviation and it really pissess me that these scum are out there wrecking the industry that has been good to most of us. Arn't they satisfied they stuffed the Oz scene and a once great airline now they want more.
A POX ON THEM ALL
They finished up in this position because of S@#%B Bastards moving into the freight scene in Aus
Not only have they stuffed up the show for the guys, they are in big strife with CASA. CP is a S@#$b (see lost AAE wheel thread) The joke down south now is that they call the show "THE CROCODILE FARMERS" as they are up to there armpits in crocs.
Once again a good operation stuffed up by "experts"
With few exceptions I hope Silk Air and the rest realise what a bunch of snivelling second rate operators they are saddling themselves with. You pay peanuts you get MONKEYS
My time is almost nigh in aviation and it really pissess me that these scum are out there wrecking the industry that has been good to most of us. Arn't they satisfied they stuffed the Oz scene and a once great airline now they want more.
A POX ON THEM ALL
