QF 737 Radio Calls OCTA / MBZ's
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Heard regularly:
"All-stations Woop-Woop, ABC OVER THE TOP, (location) THIS TIME, 5500 FEET, ESTIMATING (location) AT TIME blah blah."
"That you, Gazza???"
"Yeeeerrrrrr, Ma-aaaaate. How's the missus?"
Isn't "over the top" where soldiers went in the trenches??? Do these pilots mean, "Overhead"?? Even "overhead' isn't necessary, neither is "this time", "feet" or "estimating'. People use these phrases and other pilots pick them up, same old story.
As for "joins/maintains/taxis/etc", who was the QF gripper I heard recently begin a PA with the words,
"Ladies and Gentlemen, the captain speaks...."
What a twit....
"All-stations Woop-Woop, ABC OVER THE TOP, (location) THIS TIME, 5500 FEET, ESTIMATING (location) AT TIME blah blah."
"That you, Gazza???"
"Yeeeerrrrrr, Ma-aaaaate. How's the missus?"
Isn't "over the top" where soldiers went in the trenches??? Do these pilots mean, "Overhead"?? Even "overhead' isn't necessary, neither is "this time", "feet" or "estimating'. People use these phrases and other pilots pick them up, same old story.
As for "joins/maintains/taxis/etc", who was the QF gripper I heard recently begin a PA with the words,
"Ladies and Gentlemen, the captain speaks...."
What a twit....
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Sheep Guts comment re transmit and then LISTEN is very appropriate. How many times to do hear some one call taxying on the MBZ freq, and then without a pause transmit on the area frequency.
I also agree that the most appropriate call inbound is leaving F120, usually you are within 30 miles, about to descend into VFR levels. By monitoring the MBZ freq, you usually have a idea of the traffic prior to leaving F120.
I also agree that the most appropriate call inbound is leaving F120, usually you are within 30 miles, about to descend into VFR levels. By monitoring the MBZ freq, you usually have a idea of the traffic prior to leaving F120.
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visual on top
voodooman..
not sure if the rules have changed over the past 5 or so years, but you could be "visual" ie VMC above cloud in the old days, or has my memory been clouded by the mists of time?
not sure if the rules have changed over the past 5 or so years, but you could be "visual" ie VMC above cloud in the old days, or has my memory been clouded by the mists of time?
Bottums Up
F120 might be a bit late for somewhere like the Gove MBZ, which lies wholly within the Nhulunbuy CTAF, both on 127.8.
At F120 at typical descents for the World's Slowest Jet that allows about 1 minute to transmit, pause, listen to response and organise separation.
Surely the ideal point, depends on the aircraft type.
At F120 at typical descents for the World's Slowest Jet that allows about 1 minute to transmit, pause, listen to response and organise separation.
Surely the ideal point, depends on the aircraft type.
I challenge anyone to listen to 2 transmissions at once and make sense of either of them -assuming 2 radios of course!
It is the same with the ILS-PRM procedures - set both radios to the same volume -yeah so you cannot understand EITHER of them!
It is the same with the ILS-PRM procedures - set both radios to the same volume -yeah so you cannot understand EITHER of them!
Blue Hauler. Good point on the Jepps quote where additional calls in an MBZ are only to solve traffic conflicts. The worst situation that I have experienced is the daily babel at Point Cook which for some unknown reason was redesignated from a CTAF to a MBZ a few years back. I believe it was because that a senior CASA manager saw the local Mustang do a go around among some lighties and was panicked into declaring the place an MBZ because of this.
What is labelled pilot's discretionary calls has become mandatory calls by every GA pilot within the Point Cook MBZ. Most of these are flying instructors who should know better but who are rather fond of their own voices. T make matters worse a suggestion has been made by members of a local GA committee that the radio calls be increased.
The suggestion is that all aircraft report their position in the circuit starting with joining dead side, first crosswind leg, downwind leg, base leg, final and short final, going around and rejoining after go around. As it is we have the chatter of taxying aircraft reporting clear of the runways when blind freddie could see there is no need.
Currently every man and his dog at Point Cook report several times in the circuit and with up to seven aircraft flogging the circuit it becomes a radio jungle. Add to that babel some twits that report entering the MBZ over flying for the local training area giving the planned whereabouts and altitudes of their particular Cessna 172, Warrior etc for the next 10 minutes then the game gets out of hand.
It is the graduates of these flying schools that eventually get jobs up north and bring their poxy Point Cook radio procedures with them.
What is labelled pilot's discretionary calls has become mandatory calls by every GA pilot within the Point Cook MBZ. Most of these are flying instructors who should know better but who are rather fond of their own voices. T make matters worse a suggestion has been made by members of a local GA committee that the radio calls be increased.
The suggestion is that all aircraft report their position in the circuit starting with joining dead side, first crosswind leg, downwind leg, base leg, final and short final, going around and rejoining after go around. As it is we have the chatter of taxying aircraft reporting clear of the runways when blind freddie could see there is no need.
Currently every man and his dog at Point Cook report several times in the circuit and with up to seven aircraft flogging the circuit it becomes a radio jungle. Add to that babel some twits that report entering the MBZ over flying for the local training area giving the planned whereabouts and altitudes of their particular Cessna 172, Warrior etc for the next 10 minutes then the game gets out of hand.
It is the graduates of these flying schools that eventually get jobs up north and bring their poxy Point Cook radio procedures with them.
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I fly is right. it is all there, ready to be taught - and learned.
When I learned radio many years ago elsewhere, we had to do a separate R/T test in funny sort of confessional box. The examiner was in the other side with a headset connected through to the person under test, who was given a fictious route to fly with every type of airspace imaginable. The examiner would throw all sorts of things that you had to respond to correctly. You had to do it right or you just did not get the licence.
Here it seems quite acceptable to vary what is in the book, as and when you feel like it and if you don't know quite the right phraseology, it doesn't really matter. Then if you want to pass a message about what you want the misses to cook for dinner tonight, that's fine too. Some of the chit chat in our GAAP's is quite amazing at times. I cannot imagine quite why some pilots and controllers imagine we are interested in their private 'arrangements' to that extent!
When I learned radio many years ago elsewhere, we had to do a separate R/T test in funny sort of confessional box. The examiner was in the other side with a headset connected through to the person under test, who was given a fictious route to fly with every type of airspace imaginable. The examiner would throw all sorts of things that you had to respond to correctly. You had to do it right or you just did not get the licence.
Here it seems quite acceptable to vary what is in the book, as and when you feel like it and if you don't know quite the right phraseology, it doesn't really matter. Then if you want to pass a message about what you want the misses to cook for dinner tonight, that's fine too. Some of the chit chat in our GAAP's is quite amazing at times. I cannot imagine quite why some pilots and controllers imagine we are interested in their private 'arrangements' to that extent!
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Dehav,
Read up on ILS-PRM. You only monitor the 2nd freq when on the tower freq, and guess what? You'll only hear the same thing on both comm's!
It's in case of an over transmission when ATC want to issue a breakout instruction
Read up on ILS-PRM. You only monitor the 2nd freq when on the tower freq, and guess what? You'll only hear the same thing on both comm's!
It's in case of an over transmission when ATC want to issue a breakout instruction
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Centaurus,
It seems these days 'newbie' instructors are teaching too much reliance on the radio and not enough emphasis on lookout. And I don’t mean the cursory glance from side to side, but the full 360 degree check low, level and high.
Congestion of a radio frequency defeats its purpose. Radio reliance may also lead to a false sense of security as other operators may not be radio equipped or just can’t get a word in. PTT switches and boom mikes have a lot to answer for!
It seems these days 'newbie' instructors are teaching too much reliance on the radio and not enough emphasis on lookout. And I don’t mean the cursory glance from side to side, but the full 360 degree check low, level and high.
Congestion of a radio frequency defeats its purpose. Radio reliance may also lead to a false sense of security as other operators may not be radio equipped or just can’t get a word in. PTT switches and boom mikes have a lot to answer for!
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8Kcab
I doubt if you can monitor both frequencies if you are transmitting on one. Usually when the Tx button is pressed it mutes the Rx on all radios.
The point being made is while transmitting on the area frequency without pause, any directed calls on MBZ are muted and not heard, resulting in additional calls.
I doubt if you can monitor both frequencies if you are transmitting on one. Usually when the Tx button is pressed it mutes the Rx on all radios.
The point being made is while transmitting on the area frequency without pause, any directed calls on MBZ are muted and not heard, resulting in additional calls.
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Dog one
Not so. In our two-crew aircraft we are able to monitor and transmit on two independent frequencies at the same time. Aircraft fitted with dual coms panels! Use it all the time around MBZ's.
Not so. In our two-crew aircraft we are able to monitor and transmit on two independent frequencies at the same time. Aircraft fitted with dual coms panels! Use it all the time around MBZ's.
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dogone yes dragchute is correct. What you refer to is common on most GA aircraft and was certainly the case on most Cessna twins. But once you go a bit upmarket the audio system allows you to monitor the other VHF/s when transmitting on the other or on HF. In such a case the other transmissions on MBZ when you are transmitting on area are NOT muted.
A good point, as it really is surprising how many GA pilots do not know the limitations of the audio systems they operate and certainly many do not know that the other VHF is muted when you transmit on one. But then maybe his/her instructor did not know either! Otherwise surely it would have been taught!
A good point, as it really is surprising how many GA pilots do not know the limitations of the audio systems they operate and certainly many do not know that the other VHF is muted when you transmit on one. But then maybe his/her instructor did not know either! Otherwise surely it would have been taught!
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Again, let us focus on the original point raised in the post...
We are not complaining about the poor boggie bush pilot's nonstandard calls. We are complaining about the several thousand hour IFR jet pilot that has been selected for their experience and aptitude, been trained in a CAO 82.5 /CAR 215 environment with the best aviation training support in the country, flown all around the world as an S/O as an 'apprenticeship' in jet aviation and BEING PAID THE BIGGEST WAD OF CASH for the least time at the stick in comparison to anyone driving any other machine in that MBZ.
DeHavillandDriver, leave the peacemaker tone at the door --lets not get too warm and fuzzy in here!
The driver-under-instruction is not the prime culprit. The voices we hear are not those of twentysomething, newly promoted F/O's. The gravelly, weary tones broadcast are those that belong to older men who should know better.
And in the rare instance that the poor radio work is the output of a trainee having trouble setting up the aircraft in the last 30 miles, well we can probably all remember initial line training where we had difficulty with that at first.
But presumably you will bring it to that trainee's attention that 'if you have to use 20% of your thinking resources to make an IFR radio call (that you used to make before you joined QF), how can you expect to have enough brain space to monitor and manage the flightpath of your new aeroplane?
The trainee, thus rebuked, should be advised to spend some time in the hotel room practicing his/her calls and SOPs.
We are not complaining about the poor boggie bush pilot's nonstandard calls. We are complaining about the several thousand hour IFR jet pilot that has been selected for their experience and aptitude, been trained in a CAO 82.5 /CAR 215 environment with the best aviation training support in the country, flown all around the world as an S/O as an 'apprenticeship' in jet aviation and BEING PAID THE BIGGEST WAD OF CASH for the least time at the stick in comparison to anyone driving any other machine in that MBZ.
DeHavillandDriver, leave the peacemaker tone at the door --lets not get too warm and fuzzy in here!
The driver-under-instruction is not the prime culprit. The voices we hear are not those of twentysomething, newly promoted F/O's. The gravelly, weary tones broadcast are those that belong to older men who should know better.
And in the rare instance that the poor radio work is the output of a trainee having trouble setting up the aircraft in the last 30 miles, well we can probably all remember initial line training where we had difficulty with that at first.
But presumably you will bring it to that trainee's attention that 'if you have to use 20% of your thinking resources to make an IFR radio call (that you used to make before you joined QF), how can you expect to have enough brain space to monitor and manage the flightpath of your new aeroplane?
The trainee, thus rebuked, should be advised to spend some time in the hotel room practicing his/her calls and SOPs.
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ref +10
ref +10 just to add to your reply some time ago!! The use of "to" as in Climbing TO xxx is no longer ICAO the word TO is ommitted from the transmission due to confusion with TWO because TO and TWO sound the same.
And if flying through Europe you will see how important standard exact ICAO phraseology is !!
BlogAir 1 CLIMBING FL TWO ZERO ZERO it is NOT CLIMBING TO TWO ZERO ZERO!!
point 2. the word is DESCENDING NOT DESCENT.
phraseology in the present . I.e climbing,descending,maintaining,joining,heading,leaving, NOT LEFT because again this can be confused with a direction not a level leaving!!
Australia is a distant land and like our animals our radio telephony procedures have evolved into a very diverse and interesting mixture of procedures which can only be corrected by EVERY training dept including flying schools ensuring its students and employees are 100% hot on radio procedures otherwise myths passed down from daddy to son will always continue.
Well off my soap box now!!
And if flying through Europe you will see how important standard exact ICAO phraseology is !!
BlogAir 1 CLIMBING FL TWO ZERO ZERO it is NOT CLIMBING TO TWO ZERO ZERO!!
point 2. the word is DESCENDING NOT DESCENT.
phraseology in the present . I.e climbing,descending,maintaining,joining,heading,leaving, NOT LEFT because again this can be confused with a direction not a level leaving!!
Australia is a distant land and like our animals our radio telephony procedures have evolved into a very diverse and interesting mixture of procedures which can only be corrected by EVERY training dept including flying schools ensuring its students and employees are 100% hot on radio procedures otherwise myths passed down from daddy to son will always continue.
Well off my soap box now!!
BUSTACLOUD
Have to agree 100%.
I was discussing radio calls with a work mate the other day, in particular, "ready in turn" calling It may be assistance to the tower??? If so they can submit a request to have it published as a standard call. After requesting an intersection with a taxi call, (correct procedure) his thoughts are that on arriving at the holding point you should call "ready intersection ??" and so on.
My oppinion is, if ATC wanted these additions they would be published as the correct radio calls.
It is people changing calls to what they think are useful and to what sounds cool that creates confusion.
ITCZ
Glad to hear you say that. Look forward to listening out for precise calls from you.
Have to agree 100%.
I was discussing radio calls with a work mate the other day, in particular, "ready in turn" calling It may be assistance to the tower??? If so they can submit a request to have it published as a standard call. After requesting an intersection with a taxi call, (correct procedure) his thoughts are that on arriving at the holding point you should call "ready intersection ??" and so on.
My oppinion is, if ATC wanted these additions they would be published as the correct radio calls.
It is people changing calls to what they think are useful and to what sounds cool that creates confusion.
ITCZ
Glad to hear you say that. Look forward to listening out for precise calls from you.
Only a little thing, where does joins, maintains and lines up come from.
Last edited by RENURPP; 18th Dec 2002 at 00:20.
Sonny Hammond - I am quite aware of the ILS PRM procedures - and I reckon that if you get the over transmission noise on the comm 1, the PRM controller can transmit on the PRM frequency to his hearts content and you won't understand the transmission as the squeal from comm 1 will blast over the top of everything - I assume that you are only using one brain to decipher the transmissions going through your ears!
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Dehickland...
Whatever.
If they are at the same volume I am pretty sure, as a professional pilot, (or at least I think you are, flying a dash) that you could get past the blocked transmission to hear the relevant one.
But I suppose as a Dash 8 FO you have all the answers.
Whatever.
If they are at the same volume I am pretty sure, as a professional pilot, (or at least I think you are, flying a dash) that you could get past the blocked transmission to hear the relevant one.
But I suppose as a Dash 8 FO you have all the answers.
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Only a little thing, where does joins, maintains and lines up come from.
I have a question for the experts: If you call "Ready in turn", is it okay to call "Ready out of turn"? And what is the significant difference between the two?
