Sari Club attack.
Evertonian
Never a truer word spoken Gaunty!
Unfortunately, Howard will not pull out the big stick to Indonesia...because we aint got one! The usual rhetoric will ensue (and rightly so), but in the end, there's a bluddy lot of them compared to us!
The political situation is the same as that faced by Whitlam when E. Timor was invaded. We can waive the finger at them, but that's about it. Now, I've always thought that we needed a US military base in the top end. That way, we can say all we want, knowing full well that anyone we tick off will have to go past the Yanks first!
Lets all remember a point well made earlier. These are FANATICS/LUNATICS call them what you will, but they are hiding behind their faith. Too many good people of their faith out there who don't deserve such animosity. Remember, there's a little island off the coast of the UK that has a similar problem up north!
As for Barry Hess. I wish you well & anyone else up there that had settled in what I believed to be an idyllic place. You're always welcome back home.
The political situation is the same as that faced by Whitlam when E. Timor was invaded. We can waive the finger at them, but that's about it. Now, I've always thought that we needed a US military base in the top end. That way, we can say all we want, knowing full well that anyone we tick off will have to go past the Yanks first!
Lets all remember a point well made earlier. These are FANATICS/LUNATICS call them what you will, but they are hiding behind their faith. Too many good people of their faith out there who don't deserve such animosity. Remember, there's a little island off the coast of the UK that has a similar problem up north!
As for Barry Hess. I wish you well & anyone else up there that had settled in what I believed to be an idyllic place. You're always welcome back home.
Here here Gaunty.
Its well time that we stop fooling ourselves into believing that because we play fair, play by the rules, level playingfield etc etc and all that other feel good crap, that others will follow suit. Bombing inocent civilians is not playing fair.
Lets get serious, we have a strong and capable fleet of F111's, F18's. When we find out who did this, lets use them for what they were designed for. Its time that we also taught the Indo militry brass a lesson or two, about who has the real power in this region. US. It was proved in WW2 that one of our soldiers,saliors or airmen is worth 50 of theirs and will be proved again.
These cowards who did this despise our way of life, the fact that we have freedom, that our women have equal standing in our society as men. That we can worship our godof choice what ever it is in the way we choose. This is the freedom they want to take away from us.
Once again, the guys and girls from QF will swing into action and show the world what aussies can do in a crisis, just like they did on 9/11 in LAX, other disasters and going back to cyclone tracey in 74. As we speak, once again QF staff are going beyond the call duty in exceptionally trying circumstances and are doing us proud.
Bombs going off, snipers in the suburbs..................what is this world comming to.................this is not the world I grew up in.
God bless the unfortunates who perished in Bali.
Its well time that we stop fooling ourselves into believing that because we play fair, play by the rules, level playingfield etc etc and all that other feel good crap, that others will follow suit. Bombing inocent civilians is not playing fair.
Lets get serious, we have a strong and capable fleet of F111's, F18's. When we find out who did this, lets use them for what they were designed for. Its time that we also taught the Indo militry brass a lesson or two, about who has the real power in this region. US. It was proved in WW2 that one of our soldiers,saliors or airmen is worth 50 of theirs and will be proved again.
These cowards who did this despise our way of life, the fact that we have freedom, that our women have equal standing in our society as men. That we can worship our godof choice what ever it is in the way we choose. This is the freedom they want to take away from us.
Once again, the guys and girls from QF will swing into action and show the world what aussies can do in a crisis, just like they did on 9/11 in LAX, other disasters and going back to cyclone tracey in 74. As we speak, once again QF staff are going beyond the call duty in exceptionally trying circumstances and are doing us proud.
Bombs going off, snipers in the suburbs..................what is this world comming to.................this is not the world I grew up in.
God bless the unfortunates who perished in Bali.
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OzGrade3
Its not the world I grew up in either, Gaunty, I think it will take
another 24hrs before it dawns on the average Aussie just
what has gone down here. Geez, after the dia rapes in SYD
recently I,m starting to feel like I live in some foreign country.
The Australian death toll according to sky news could be as
high as 130 if this does not wake the average Aussie up, what
hope have we got?.
Wirraway
Its not the world I grew up in either, Gaunty, I think it will take
another 24hrs before it dawns on the average Aussie just
what has gone down here. Geez, after the dia rapes in SYD
recently I,m starting to feel like I live in some foreign country.
The Australian death toll according to sky news could be as
high as 130 if this does not wake the average Aussie up, what
hope have we got?.
Wirraway
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Wirraway
Thanks for the ABC take on the hospitals and lack of basic medical facilities.
mrs gaunty who is a medical professional and I were talking about it over dinner.
She is going to have to rearrange some of her op suite schedules as her "boys", the plastics, orthopods and others are going to be busy.
What a lot of Aussies don't understand is that the final death toll will be much higher than it should have been as a result of the lack of even the most basic western post accident medical treatment.
We have enjoyed the wonderful First Class hotels, but the danger of their Third World medical system was always lurking. It was always a fools paradise in that respect.
The severe burns victims are at extreme risk and it will be a miracle for those who survive the transfer, when every minute is crucial.
Simple trauma that would be routine in Oz, in Bali becomes seriously dangerous.
Major trauma that would challenge Oz IC, will most likely be fatal.
We can be confident though, that our superb RAAF people with competent triage will be able to save those that can be.
They will, however, need all the luck they can get.
QF are doing a fantastic job and there was even a report of an OZ private jet turning up with aid and being made available for medical transfer, no fanfare, just a simple "how can we help".
Thanks for the ABC take on the hospitals and lack of basic medical facilities.
mrs gaunty who is a medical professional and I were talking about it over dinner.
She is going to have to rearrange some of her op suite schedules as her "boys", the plastics, orthopods and others are going to be busy.
What a lot of Aussies don't understand is that the final death toll will be much higher than it should have been as a result of the lack of even the most basic western post accident medical treatment.
We have enjoyed the wonderful First Class hotels, but the danger of their Third World medical system was always lurking. It was always a fools paradise in that respect.
The severe burns victims are at extreme risk and it will be a miracle for those who survive the transfer, when every minute is crucial.
Simple trauma that would be routine in Oz, in Bali becomes seriously dangerous.
Major trauma that would challenge Oz IC, will most likely be fatal.
We can be confident though, that our superb RAAF people with competent triage will be able to save those that can be.
They will, however, need all the luck they can get.
QF are doing a fantastic job and there was even a report of an OZ private jet turning up with aid and being made available for medical transfer, no fanfare, just a simple "how can we help".
'May they Rest in Peace'.
Gaunty and Ozgrade3: I agree.
Now, 3 Holer I have a few questions for you. Your quote,
"muslims are not the problem here and neither is islam"
Are you trying to tell us that al-qaida has no islamic connections or influence?
Are you trying to tell us that Indonesia is not the most populous muslim nation in the world?
Are you trying to tell us that there are no al-qadia operatives in Indonesia? (or Australia for that matter)
Are you trying to tell us that this doesnt co-incide with the second anniversary of the al-qadia linked attack on USS Cole off Yemen?
Are you trying to tell us that the US Embassy in Jakarta wasn't evacuated very recently and a car exploded nearby with one man killed?
Are you trying to tell us that Authorities in Malaysia and Singapore alleged that members of jemaah islamiyah(terrorists)are seeking to set up a islamic state in South East Asia and are presently based in Indonesia?
Are you trying to tell us that there is a difference between muslims and islam and if so that their beliefs aren't founded from the koran?
Are you aware that the koran instructs muslims "that if they can't convert someone to islam you may as well kill that person for they are nothing"
I believe this attack has islamic origins and I am certain this will be revealed soon.
Regards Hoss
Gaunty and Ozgrade3: I agree.
Now, 3 Holer I have a few questions for you. Your quote,
"muslims are not the problem here and neither is islam"
Are you trying to tell us that al-qaida has no islamic connections or influence?
Are you trying to tell us that Indonesia is not the most populous muslim nation in the world?
Are you trying to tell us that there are no al-qadia operatives in Indonesia? (or Australia for that matter)
Are you trying to tell us that this doesnt co-incide with the second anniversary of the al-qadia linked attack on USS Cole off Yemen?
Are you trying to tell us that the US Embassy in Jakarta wasn't evacuated very recently and a car exploded nearby with one man killed?
Are you trying to tell us that Authorities in Malaysia and Singapore alleged that members of jemaah islamiyah(terrorists)are seeking to set up a islamic state in South East Asia and are presently based in Indonesia?
Are you trying to tell us that there is a difference between muslims and islam and if so that their beliefs aren't founded from the koran?
Are you aware that the koran instructs muslims "that if they can't convert someone to islam you may as well kill that person for they are nothing"
I believe this attack has islamic origins and I am certain this will be revealed soon.
Regards Hoss
Last edited by hoss; 13th Oct 2002 at 17:23.
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There is very little info about what happened in Bali yet. Dont you guys think its a little early to go pointing fingers at people of various faiths.
Remember, our's is one of the few governments around the world foolish enough to follow GW Bush into action in the middle east. Howard lied to us about the boat people and if required will lie to us about the perpertrators of this attack in Bali. Be carefull about what you read and who tells you the info.
Dont forget, Timothy McVeigh was an Arab for a couple days following the Oak city bombing.
Dont jump to conclusions.
Remember, our's is one of the few governments around the world foolish enough to follow GW Bush into action in the middle east. Howard lied to us about the boat people and if required will lie to us about the perpertrators of this attack in Bali. Be carefull about what you read and who tells you the info.
Dont forget, Timothy McVeigh was an Arab for a couple days following the Oak city bombing.
Dont jump to conclusions.
I consider myself pretty moderate in most things BUT...
Just after Sept 11 an Aussie news crew went to a predominantly Muslim Sydney Suburb and asked the first veiled, teenaged girl what she thought of Bin Laden...
"I think he's a Hero!" she said...
Shortly there after a well known representative of the Muslim community appeared to hose down the situation and assure us all that they were really our friends.
People who consider me a worthless dog worthy only of a fiery fate in hell because I don't think the same way as them (And I'm not talking about '89ers here, though it's much the same mentality!!) are being welcomed in my country.
Moderation is a fine thing...In Moderation!!!
Just after Sept 11 an Aussie news crew went to a predominantly Muslim Sydney Suburb and asked the first veiled, teenaged girl what she thought of Bin Laden...
"I think he's a Hero!" she said...
Shortly there after a well known representative of the Muslim community appeared to hose down the situation and assure us all that they were really our friends.
People who consider me a worthless dog worthy only of a fiery fate in hell because I don't think the same way as them (And I'm not talking about '89ers here, though it's much the same mentality!!) are being welcomed in my country.
Moderation is a fine thing...In Moderation!!!
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Just few extracts from this mornings papers
"Melbourne Age"
'Late last night, the unofficial death toll from the attack on two crowded nightclubs in the tourist hub of Kuta had climbed to 187, while local authorities struggled with inadequate medical facilities to care for more than 300 injured.'
'An emotional Prime Minister John Howard warned the nation to be prepared for a high Australian death toll from the world's biggest terrorist outrage since the September 11 attacks.'
'It appears likely the attack will result in the greatest single loss of Australian lives overseas during peacetime.'
'Fears of a massive Australian death toll grew after hospital authorities estimated that 75 per cent of the injured were Australian. Eight Australians had been confirmed dead by last night.'
'Other Australians were joining a mass exodus from the holiday island, with Qantas scheduling special flights to evacuate tourists and the Federal Government issuing a blanket warning against any travel to Bali.'
'Late yesterday, authorities in the Balinese capital, Denpasar, listed 187 dead with 309 injured. The dead reportedly included Australians, Indonesians, Americans, Britons, Germans, Swedes, Swiss, Italians and Canadians.'
'The biggest terrorist attack involving Australians comes after months of US criticism of Jakarta for not taking seriously the threat of international terrorist groups, particularly al Qaeda, which it says are working inside Indonesia.'
-----------------------------
'He couldn't talk and didn't want to give his surname. "Just Michael will do," he muttered, his voice breaking. Sitting a short distance away from him in his Bali hotel room were four young girls, all from Sydney but all from different families. The eldest was 15, two were 14 and the fourth, just 12 years old. Last night they still didn't know whether their parents were dead after the murderous explosions that ripped through two nightclubs on the popular Kuta Beach strip.'
'Michael and his mate, both from Perth, had been drinking at a bar three doors from the Sari when the explosion ripped through the nightclub. "We just ran on to the street and tried to do what we could but it was carnage, sheer bloody carnage," Michael said last night.
"Then we saw the girls, one after the other, just wandering around in shock and we grabbed them and brought them back to our hotel to try and help them." One of the girls had told him she was on the dance floor when the club erupted into flames and had had to crawl over dead bodies to get out.
"We're just trying to help these poor little girls to find their mums and dads, but it doesn't look real good at the moment," Michael said.'
----------------------------------
Sue McKerrow and her husband, Ron, were going to bed when they heard the explosion. When they opened the door to their room, their daughter Kim, 23, and her friend Linley Huguenan, 22, were standing in the doorway hysterical, their faces covered in blood, their hair burnt. They'd been in the Padi bar next door to the Sari when the bomb went off. Someone had given them a ride back to the hotel on a motor bike.
Mrs McKerrow said her daughter and friend suffered burns to about 35 per cent of their bodies as well as horrific shrapnel wounds. "When I opened the door I nearly died," Mrs McKerrow, from The Basin, said by phone from the hotel.
The McKerrows attempted to get the two badly injured women treatment at Bali's only public hospital in Denpasar but were turned away because it was full. They were sent to an army hospital but again had to leave because, Mrs McKerrow said, "there were no drugs, no linen, nothing, it was a nightmare".
Eventually the two women were treated at the International Medical Clinic.
"We brought Kim back to the hotel where an American trainee doctor has been caring for her until we can get her on a Hercules and back to an Australian hospital," she said. She described the scene in Bali as "horror, pure and utter horror".
-----------------------------------
""We just kept running into people with body parts missing. Taxis would not take people with blood on them. They wanted $50 to take you out of there."
------------------------------------
The Australian Government had been slow to take seriously the threat of terrorism in South-East Asia, according to terrorism expert and author Rohan Gunaratna.
Mr Gunaratna said attacks would occur on Australia's shores unless terrorist groups in the region were destroyed.
"I believe the Australian Government should have taken more action to protect Australian interests both in Australia and overseas, especially after a bomb exploded in Indonesia inside the Australian international school last year," Mr Gunaratna, based in Singapore, told ABC radio.
Mr Gunaratna claimed Australians were among the targets in the Bali bomb blast because of Australia's high profile in the campaign to defeat terrorism.
But he said Australia's involvement in the war on terror was necessary because "all nations must join hands to fight terrorists".
Mr Gunaratna, the author of Inside al Qaeda: Global Network of Terror, said the Bali blast was likely to be the work of Jemaah Islamiah.
--------------------------------------------
"The Australian"
IT is 20 hours after the bomb blast that destroyed Paul Haines's holiday and the 18-year-old has wandered in to the Sanglah Denpasar hospital, the island's finest. The blisters on his face from burns sustained in the blast the night before are dripping with ooze.
He holds up his hands to indicate despair, oblivious to the fact that they are swollen with blisters the size of golf balls, and inadvertently catches some of the drops falling like tears from his face. The Perth welder has spent the night, and day, being sent from one hospital to another. He's lost count of the number he's been to, but it's a fair bet it is all of Bali's nine, and he is yet to receive a bandage, let alone a painkiller. At this point, 7pm, all he wants is a drink of water, and a flight home.
"You're in good nick, mate," says one of the dozens of volunteers that have been drawn from the Bali playground to the hospitals. "That's why no one's helping you. We've just got a couple of gruesome things to do first, and then we'll come back for you."
-------------------------------------------------------------------
These are just a few extracts from 2 papers of this disgusting
act, my condolances to all familys involved.
Wirraway
"Melbourne Age"
'Late last night, the unofficial death toll from the attack on two crowded nightclubs in the tourist hub of Kuta had climbed to 187, while local authorities struggled with inadequate medical facilities to care for more than 300 injured.'
'An emotional Prime Minister John Howard warned the nation to be prepared for a high Australian death toll from the world's biggest terrorist outrage since the September 11 attacks.'
'It appears likely the attack will result in the greatest single loss of Australian lives overseas during peacetime.'
'Fears of a massive Australian death toll grew after hospital authorities estimated that 75 per cent of the injured were Australian. Eight Australians had been confirmed dead by last night.'
'Other Australians were joining a mass exodus from the holiday island, with Qantas scheduling special flights to evacuate tourists and the Federal Government issuing a blanket warning against any travel to Bali.'
'Late yesterday, authorities in the Balinese capital, Denpasar, listed 187 dead with 309 injured. The dead reportedly included Australians, Indonesians, Americans, Britons, Germans, Swedes, Swiss, Italians and Canadians.'
'The biggest terrorist attack involving Australians comes after months of US criticism of Jakarta for not taking seriously the threat of international terrorist groups, particularly al Qaeda, which it says are working inside Indonesia.'
-----------------------------
'He couldn't talk and didn't want to give his surname. "Just Michael will do," he muttered, his voice breaking. Sitting a short distance away from him in his Bali hotel room were four young girls, all from Sydney but all from different families. The eldest was 15, two were 14 and the fourth, just 12 years old. Last night they still didn't know whether their parents were dead after the murderous explosions that ripped through two nightclubs on the popular Kuta Beach strip.'
'Michael and his mate, both from Perth, had been drinking at a bar three doors from the Sari when the explosion ripped through the nightclub. "We just ran on to the street and tried to do what we could but it was carnage, sheer bloody carnage," Michael said last night.
"Then we saw the girls, one after the other, just wandering around in shock and we grabbed them and brought them back to our hotel to try and help them." One of the girls had told him she was on the dance floor when the club erupted into flames and had had to crawl over dead bodies to get out.
"We're just trying to help these poor little girls to find their mums and dads, but it doesn't look real good at the moment," Michael said.'
----------------------------------
Sue McKerrow and her husband, Ron, were going to bed when they heard the explosion. When they opened the door to their room, their daughter Kim, 23, and her friend Linley Huguenan, 22, were standing in the doorway hysterical, their faces covered in blood, their hair burnt. They'd been in the Padi bar next door to the Sari when the bomb went off. Someone had given them a ride back to the hotel on a motor bike.
Mrs McKerrow said her daughter and friend suffered burns to about 35 per cent of their bodies as well as horrific shrapnel wounds. "When I opened the door I nearly died," Mrs McKerrow, from The Basin, said by phone from the hotel.
The McKerrows attempted to get the two badly injured women treatment at Bali's only public hospital in Denpasar but were turned away because it was full. They were sent to an army hospital but again had to leave because, Mrs McKerrow said, "there were no drugs, no linen, nothing, it was a nightmare".
Eventually the two women were treated at the International Medical Clinic.
"We brought Kim back to the hotel where an American trainee doctor has been caring for her until we can get her on a Hercules and back to an Australian hospital," she said. She described the scene in Bali as "horror, pure and utter horror".
-----------------------------------
""We just kept running into people with body parts missing. Taxis would not take people with blood on them. They wanted $50 to take you out of there."
------------------------------------
The Australian Government had been slow to take seriously the threat of terrorism in South-East Asia, according to terrorism expert and author Rohan Gunaratna.
Mr Gunaratna said attacks would occur on Australia's shores unless terrorist groups in the region were destroyed.
"I believe the Australian Government should have taken more action to protect Australian interests both in Australia and overseas, especially after a bomb exploded in Indonesia inside the Australian international school last year," Mr Gunaratna, based in Singapore, told ABC radio.
Mr Gunaratna claimed Australians were among the targets in the Bali bomb blast because of Australia's high profile in the campaign to defeat terrorism.
But he said Australia's involvement in the war on terror was necessary because "all nations must join hands to fight terrorists".
Mr Gunaratna, the author of Inside al Qaeda: Global Network of Terror, said the Bali blast was likely to be the work of Jemaah Islamiah.
--------------------------------------------
"The Australian"
IT is 20 hours after the bomb blast that destroyed Paul Haines's holiday and the 18-year-old has wandered in to the Sanglah Denpasar hospital, the island's finest. The blisters on his face from burns sustained in the blast the night before are dripping with ooze.
He holds up his hands to indicate despair, oblivious to the fact that they are swollen with blisters the size of golf balls, and inadvertently catches some of the drops falling like tears from his face. The Perth welder has spent the night, and day, being sent from one hospital to another. He's lost count of the number he's been to, but it's a fair bet it is all of Bali's nine, and he is yet to receive a bandage, let alone a painkiller. At this point, 7pm, all he wants is a drink of water, and a flight home.
"You're in good nick, mate," says one of the dozens of volunteers that have been drawn from the Bali playground to the hospitals. "That's why no one's helping you. We've just got a couple of gruesome things to do first, and then we'll come back for you."
-------------------------------------------------------------------
These are just a few extracts from 2 papers of this disgusting
act, my condolances to all familys involved.
Wirraway
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Lets get serious, we have a strong and capable fleet of F111's, F18's. When we find out who did this, lets use them for what they were designed for
Grandpa Aerotart
What people are saying about the appalling level of medical care available in Bali is no understatement, it's no better in most every other part of Indonesia. I've medivaced LOTS of people from Bali and the hospitals there are truly bad.
My thoughts are with the victims. How many children will be orphaned or lose a dad or mum...not all the revellers in Bali are teens or 20 somethings.
It is well and truly time we as a nation stop the PC pussyfooting and start demanding accountability in our near neighbours.
It will not surprise me AT ALL when they find sections of the Indonesian Military were not only aware of this before it happened but were directly involved.
The military in Indonesia is all pervasive, they run everything...including the Govt of Indonesia.
When Australia finds out who did this it should result in a strike by our F111s....if that means we bomb the Indon Military HQ in Jakarta so be it!!!
Give me the keys to an F111 and I'll do it myself
Chuck.
My thoughts are with the victims. How many children will be orphaned or lose a dad or mum...not all the revellers in Bali are teens or 20 somethings.
It is well and truly time we as a nation stop the PC pussyfooting and start demanding accountability in our near neighbours.
It will not surprise me AT ALL when they find sections of the Indonesian Military were not only aware of this before it happened but were directly involved.
The military in Indonesia is all pervasive, they run everything...including the Govt of Indonesia.
When Australia finds out who did this it should result in a strike by our F111s....if that means we bomb the Indon Military HQ in Jakarta so be it!!!
Give me the keys to an F111 and I'll do it myself
Chuck.
Ozgrade3
Can I suggest your air campaign against Indonesia be launched from Christmas Island? With a higher sortie rate we will run out of bombs before spare parts- on about day 3!
Fail to see the merit in a big stick response on a crumbling and relatively temperate muslim nation.
I don't think we fought Indonesia in WW2. We fought the Jap's there. Like today, the issue of who was and wasn't on our side amongst the locals not black and white.
Howard's leadership appears strong and sensible.Would only suggest a much more serious defence budget.
Can't understand the Yanks, half-baked effort in Afganistan. Unfinished job on Al Queda but lets go into Iraq.
Now, just like in WW2, our troops, and especially our SAS, belong home and not in the Middle East. Except of course, the SAS in Afganistan, where there is still Al Queda to hunt down.
Awful day for Australia. Sympathies to all.
Can I suggest your air campaign against Indonesia be launched from Christmas Island? With a higher sortie rate we will run out of bombs before spare parts- on about day 3!
Fail to see the merit in a big stick response on a crumbling and relatively temperate muslim nation.
I don't think we fought Indonesia in WW2. We fought the Jap's there. Like today, the issue of who was and wasn't on our side amongst the locals not black and white.
Howard's leadership appears strong and sensible.Would only suggest a much more serious defence budget.
Can't understand the Yanks, half-baked effort in Afganistan. Unfinished job on Al Queda but lets go into Iraq.
Now, just like in WW2, our troops, and especially our SAS, belong home and not in the Middle East. Except of course, the SAS in Afganistan, where there is still Al Queda to hunt down.
Awful day for Australia. Sympathies to all.
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Methinks starting a war with Indonesia is not such a bright move......we dont realistically have any substantial defence capabilities to stop them.
With Indonesias population of 220 million odd, even if they swam here, and the sharks got half of them (the sharks being are best defence force), then they lost another 50% in the outback we would still be overrun.
With Indonesias population of 220 million odd, even if they swam here, and the sharks got half of them (the sharks being are best defence force), then they lost another 50% in the outback we would still be overrun.
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Some countries live with this horror every day of their lives. They're waiting at a bus stop and get blown up or sitting in a cafe enjoying the afternoon and someone sprays the whole crowd with bullets. Countries have had foreign armies invade and kill their civilians and destroy their homes -look at Vietnam and the countries of World War 2. Australia has been lucky and the generations since WW2, despite Korea, Vietnam Afghanistan have no idea what life is like when a country is at war.Gung ho rhetoric
from people who would contemplate taking this country into a localised war with a country who would overrun us in about a week if they decided to mobilise is just a build up of testosterone and misguided macho postering. Leave this to the politicians who, hopefully, will make the right decisions.
My thoughts are with those who have lost loved ones.
Welcome to the real world, Australia. Coming, ready or not.
from people who would contemplate taking this country into a localised war with a country who would overrun us in about a week if they decided to mobilise is just a build up of testosterone and misguided macho postering. Leave this to the politicians who, hopefully, will make the right decisions.
My thoughts are with those who have lost loved ones.
Welcome to the real world, Australia. Coming, ready or not.
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Next time you're in a magazine rack grab the oz printing of the Economist mag. Had a good article on attacking Iraq for not upholding UN resolutions over the past 10 years and what it will or won't achieve. It only angers the half the world that has watched Israel repeatedly defy UN resolutions passed down upon it over the past 30 years as the US has continually spent billions on military aid for Israel. To some out there it doesn't appear like the US is just trying to uphold world order, it goes on about the evils of dictatorships and the need for democracy in Iraq while propping up the one next door in Saudi. I'm not taking sides here but sometimes what's good for the US may not be good for Australia and I know where I'd rather live. Sorry Womera if I've drifted off topic.
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Girt by sea
This a wake up call to all Australians, and if there is any comfort than can be drawn from it (and there not much of that at all), is that this devastating event didn't occur on our own home soil.
However it might not be long before some loony group gets the idea to do something similar on our native soil. We have been blessed with one of the most peaceful (but new) nations on earth; shychaser says it all, welcome to the REAL world! Other nations live with potential horror every day.
For those you who wish to condemn Moslems simply for that, then let me point out to you the red neck racist bigotry of some of extremist Christian groups think the same way, and given the opportunity, would do the same thing, to other groups. Halfwit non-educated dipsticks are their common features. They're all the blooody same! If you want to be so simplistic about it, then lets call is the rot of religion, that caused this, not just one faith.
So in my pathetic opinion what is it that causes these problems? Corruption and Education, the former being too much, and the latter being insufficient.
Dr. Mahatir, the PM of Malaysia recently summed it up by saying that it was the “greedy” nations that have caused many of these problems. Immediately you would think that he is referring to countries like the US and UK. Maybe he was, but think about this; the so called “greedy” nations are those that are run by despotic rulers, who are more interested in maintaining the Status quo of their incumbent power dispensing favour and riches upon those that support their regimes. They have in the process ignored their poorest masses, which is the breeding ground for discontent, and what better place to breed religious intolerance.
Which countries have had these traits the most? Indonesia and the Philippines! Where are most of these problems, in the SE Asia region? Ditto! Who has supported these regimes for so long? US, UK, and Australia, directly or indirectly, usually in the interests of trade.
Ultimately we have acquiesced to the past injustices on these people who have been deprived of the right to live in dignity and now the chickens are coming home to roost. It’s the same in the US. Our policies, and that of the US must change in order to prevent this from occurring again.
By going in and blowing up this group and that group is simply reactionary, and I accept that it has a lot to do with grief and anger in the hopelessness of the current situation, by all means vent, but also consider the long term consequences of what you are saying.
Extreme Islam knows one thing. Educate the people. Educate them in only one way, without question, and it works. You take a mass of people with no hope, no future, and you offer them something. Of course they will take it, and they will embrace it. Because they know no other way. The West has yet to learn this lesson. This is the weapon of choice by the extremists, and it should be the weapon of choice of the Western World. It has taken the extremists a generation or two to build up the fervour for this, and it will take the same for other nations to counter such fervour. This and poverty are the reasons we have such problems growing in the world. The extremists want us to react with force. It will only justify their cause further. It’s time for the West to acknowledge the differences and change strategy and policy in dealing with these countries. Just a few thoughts on this.
My condolences to my fellow Australians. May they find peace.
However it might not be long before some loony group gets the idea to do something similar on our native soil. We have been blessed with one of the most peaceful (but new) nations on earth; shychaser says it all, welcome to the REAL world! Other nations live with potential horror every day.
For those you who wish to condemn Moslems simply for that, then let me point out to you the red neck racist bigotry of some of extremist Christian groups think the same way, and given the opportunity, would do the same thing, to other groups. Halfwit non-educated dipsticks are their common features. They're all the blooody same! If you want to be so simplistic about it, then lets call is the rot of religion, that caused this, not just one faith.
So in my pathetic opinion what is it that causes these problems? Corruption and Education, the former being too much, and the latter being insufficient.
Dr. Mahatir, the PM of Malaysia recently summed it up by saying that it was the “greedy” nations that have caused many of these problems. Immediately you would think that he is referring to countries like the US and UK. Maybe he was, but think about this; the so called “greedy” nations are those that are run by despotic rulers, who are more interested in maintaining the Status quo of their incumbent power dispensing favour and riches upon those that support their regimes. They have in the process ignored their poorest masses, which is the breeding ground for discontent, and what better place to breed religious intolerance.
Which countries have had these traits the most? Indonesia and the Philippines! Where are most of these problems, in the SE Asia region? Ditto! Who has supported these regimes for so long? US, UK, and Australia, directly or indirectly, usually in the interests of trade.
Ultimately we have acquiesced to the past injustices on these people who have been deprived of the right to live in dignity and now the chickens are coming home to roost. It’s the same in the US. Our policies, and that of the US must change in order to prevent this from occurring again.
By going in and blowing up this group and that group is simply reactionary, and I accept that it has a lot to do with grief and anger in the hopelessness of the current situation, by all means vent, but also consider the long term consequences of what you are saying.
Extreme Islam knows one thing. Educate the people. Educate them in only one way, without question, and it works. You take a mass of people with no hope, no future, and you offer them something. Of course they will take it, and they will embrace it. Because they know no other way. The West has yet to learn this lesson. This is the weapon of choice by the extremists, and it should be the weapon of choice of the Western World. It has taken the extremists a generation or two to build up the fervour for this, and it will take the same for other nations to counter such fervour. This and poverty are the reasons we have such problems growing in the world. The extremists want us to react with force. It will only justify their cause further. It’s time for the West to acknowledge the differences and change strategy and policy in dealing with these countries. Just a few thoughts on this.
My condolences to my fellow Australians. May they find peace.
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An English Terrorism 'expert' this morning on CNBC stated 2 things.
1. No evidence AT THIS STAGE suggests a link between Bali and And Bin Ladens's outfit.
2. Some experts are looking at a link between the Australian governments intervention in East Timor as Interfet and the events at Kuta.
The Oz government is implicated in causing misery to a large disenfranchised group of people. Maybe this is payback.
1. No evidence AT THIS STAGE suggests a link between Bali and And Bin Ladens's outfit.
2. Some experts are looking at a link between the Australian governments intervention in East Timor as Interfet and the events at Kuta.
The Oz government is implicated in causing misery to a large disenfranchised group of people. Maybe this is payback.
Moderator
Terrorism has been around for hundreds of years, Guy Fawkes was around a long time ago. How many people realise that when they look at fireworks on 5 November they are commemorating "The Gunpowder Plot" and someone who tried to blow up the houses of parliament and very nearly succeeded? (He was a catholic by the way)
Sadly it is not something you can stamp out, there will always be people who can justify this sort of things to themselves and are brainwashed out of any rational human feelings. How can you reason with a suicide bomber?
We all have to learn to live with it and the awful thing is that my first reaction to the news was the sort of numbness that I used to feel growing up in the UK in the seventies and eighties and having to live with the news reports about the atrocities of the IRA, such as bombing babies out of their prams. After a while you just don't feel anything but a sort of hollow sorrow. Australia has been very lucky for a very long time, now it seems the luck has run out.
Condolences to all the families involved whose loved ones have become victim to the policies of the biggest hypocrite of them all, name no names but he's not an Aussie.
Sadly it is not something you can stamp out, there will always be people who can justify this sort of things to themselves and are brainwashed out of any rational human feelings. How can you reason with a suicide bomber?
We all have to learn to live with it and the awful thing is that my first reaction to the news was the sort of numbness that I used to feel growing up in the UK in the seventies and eighties and having to live with the news reports about the atrocities of the IRA, such as bombing babies out of their prams. After a while you just don't feel anything but a sort of hollow sorrow. Australia has been very lucky for a very long time, now it seems the luck has run out.
Condolences to all the families involved whose loved ones have become victim to the policies of the biggest hypocrite of them all, name no names but he's not an Aussie.
Evertonian
Very true CFI. You could also link it to our own warped view of historical events like Ned Kelly & the racially motivated Eureka stockade!
People who are "respected" by Australians, but were basically criminals. Without going too far off the topic, it annoys me to see Premiers glorifying such past events & scoring points on them.
At the end of the day, there are probably more similarities than differences between us!
People who are "respected" by Australians, but were basically criminals. Without going too far off the topic, it annoys me to see Premiers glorifying such past events & scoring points on them.
At the end of the day, there are probably more similarities than differences between us!
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Mounting war on Indonesia is a terrible idea!
THEY are not responsible! Seriously people, THINK!!!
The F/A-18 and our **** weak F-111's will only amuse the Indonesians!
The Indonesian air force by all means is not a small one....
THEY are not responsible! Seriously people, THINK!!!
The F/A-18 and our **** weak F-111's will only amuse the Indonesians!
The Indonesian air force by all means is not a small one....