SQ domestic confirmed??????
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Whiskery You may be right, I'm not taking any bets, (I prefer VB anyway!), my contributions to this thread are just an attempt to quote the facts rather than some of the more outlandish opinion that gets expressed from time to time.
Prong Wallop As I said, no one in their right mind would have considered any kind of expansion at the time Ansett went down, the entire industry, balls and all was moving in the opposite direction. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
As for the board member in ANZ from SQ, nothing he could do anyway, he would have been outvoted, sure SQ knew what was happening but was powerless to stop it. No way SQ could have 'protected their investment', the whole airline was on the verge of going bankrupt anyway.
Prong Wallop As I said, no one in their right mind would have considered any kind of expansion at the time Ansett went down, the entire industry, balls and all was moving in the opposite direction. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
As for the board member in ANZ from SQ, nothing he could do anyway, he would have been outvoted, sure SQ knew what was happening but was powerless to stop it. No way SQ could have 'protected their investment', the whole airline was on the verge of going bankrupt anyway.
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Skinny Dog,
No sensitivity here. I've travelled ten domestic sectors in the last 13 months, and on 9 occasions QF was the same or cheaper.
On one, QF was $180 and VB $420!! Big difference there, and not the norm, but the point I make is that VB has promoted themselves as a low cost carrier, but that doen't translate to low fares, necessarily. They're playing on that point, and good luck to them for doing so. Buyer beware.
The public may think so and book VB without checking, but if the fare is the same with QF, or even a little more, then I'd take QF any day.
No sensitivity here. I've travelled ten domestic sectors in the last 13 months, and on 9 occasions QF was the same or cheaper.
On one, QF was $180 and VB $420!! Big difference there, and not the norm, but the point I make is that VB has promoted themselves as a low cost carrier, but that doen't translate to low fares, necessarily. They're playing on that point, and good luck to them for doing so. Buyer beware.
The public may think so and book VB without checking, but if the fare is the same with QF, or even a little more, then I'd take QF any day.
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Dear Blue Eagle You have succeeded in exposing my true past
identity.But, I believe you are in fact none other than Gladiator !! the colder weather has changed your opinions. What in heavans
name has my possible previous handle got to do with the facts
on SQ. Okay I got the population wrong. The biggest business
in Singapore is SQ, the government owns it through the process
of a mandatory universal provident fund. My point was that SQ
does not compete in a level field sense. It is a commercial sham,
it has used cleverly negotiated historical rights to operate.
If you believe that crew rest in economy is not approaching slave
labour conditions- you ain't done long haul.
identity.But, I believe you are in fact none other than Gladiator !! the colder weather has changed your opinions. What in heavans
name has my possible previous handle got to do with the facts
on SQ. Okay I got the population wrong. The biggest business
in Singapore is SQ, the government owns it through the process
of a mandatory universal provident fund. My point was that SQ
does not compete in a level field sense. It is a commercial sham,
it has used cleverly negotiated historical rights to operate.
If you believe that crew rest in economy is not approaching slave
labour conditions- you ain't done long haul.
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friend of a friend..
The son of a very good friend has it on good authority that Singapore will be operating in Oz domestically first half of next year.
Why don't the ex Ansett staff get behind Singapore and talk to them about a staff/share deal. Singapore are well known for 'looking after' employees.
Put some of the money that the Administrator owes in to buy shares.
Why don't the ex Ansett staff get behind Singapore and talk to them about a staff/share deal. Singapore are well known for 'looking after' employees.
Put some of the money that the Administrator owes in to buy shares.
Evertonian
Why would anyone want to invest in an airline?
I can't imagine anyone worse than the staff to run an airline (with the possible exception of the previous ANZ management team!) Just look at United.
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Blue Eagle -
With respect to my previous quote of "SQ being a knight in shining armour" this was a quote from many an ex Ansett driver who were confident right until Sept 14 that "Singapore would never let AN-Air NZ collapse" and "there is too much to lose if we collapse".
What prophetic words.
These same guys were also so cock-sure of SQ buying the remnants early in the piece and then were very smug about Ansett MKII starting up and kicking "severe Virgin butt".
I dont think you have to be a neuro surgeon to comment on this one.
Speaking to these same ex AN A320 pilots some weeks back they were so confident that SQ would be starting an airline in Oz using A320s that one had even delayed an interview with an overseas operator and others were delaying applying overseas until they heard something.
Reackon I must be from another planet because that was the way I was treated after telling these guys they have blast-furnace sludge for brains and telling these guys they have to accept reality rather than rumours and maybe's.
Wishful thinking is nice but not at the expense of survival and prosperity.
12 months on these guys are still unemployed and living on a wing and a prayer so to speak and refusing to accept "lesser" positions to what they were used to.
I guess some people just cant be told and that's testimony to the fact that ego is a hindrance.
Blue Eagle you ask about QF being lured into the Star Alliance.
Can you imagine the legal wrangling involved with frequent flyer points by itself let alone the other myriad of legal and commercial nightmares?
With respect to my previous quote of "SQ being a knight in shining armour" this was a quote from many an ex Ansett driver who were confident right until Sept 14 that "Singapore would never let AN-Air NZ collapse" and "there is too much to lose if we collapse".
What prophetic words.
These same guys were also so cock-sure of SQ buying the remnants early in the piece and then were very smug about Ansett MKII starting up and kicking "severe Virgin butt".
I dont think you have to be a neuro surgeon to comment on this one.
Speaking to these same ex AN A320 pilots some weeks back they were so confident that SQ would be starting an airline in Oz using A320s that one had even delayed an interview with an overseas operator and others were delaying applying overseas until they heard something.
Reackon I must be from another planet because that was the way I was treated after telling these guys they have blast-furnace sludge for brains and telling these guys they have to accept reality rather than rumours and maybe's.
Wishful thinking is nice but not at the expense of survival and prosperity.
12 months on these guys are still unemployed and living on a wing and a prayer so to speak and refusing to accept "lesser" positions to what they were used to.
I guess some people just cant be told and that's testimony to the fact that ego is a hindrance.
Blue Eagle you ask about QF being lured into the Star Alliance.
Can you imagine the legal wrangling involved with frequent flyer points by itself let alone the other myriad of legal and commercial nightmares?
Last edited by TIMMEEEE; 12th Oct 2002 at 11:55.
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Whiskery,
You fellows are not listening!!!!
"It would be ideal for the consumer to have a third airline flying around in competition with Virgin and Qantas, however, I suggest it would take a pretty gutzzee move to start up a new airline in this present climate. Now I'll go out and buy another case of Crownies and put them in the shed but the bet remains the same:- "
Alliance you boofhead!
I prefer the Scottish brown stuff anyway. You can keep your crownies in the shed.
You fellows are not listening!!!!
"It would be ideal for the consumer to have a third airline flying around in competition with Virgin and Qantas, however, I suggest it would take a pretty gutzzee move to start up a new airline in this present climate. Now I'll go out and buy another case of Crownies and put them in the shed but the bet remains the same:- "
Alliance you boofhead!
I prefer the Scottish brown stuff anyway. You can keep your crownies in the shed.
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TIMMEE - Yup I am inclined to agree with your sentiments re the ex Ansett pilots, I think we were, in part, at cross purposes earlier.
I was always told by the 'old men' of the profession that you should always take the first firm offer in aviation, you cannot afford to hang back and wait on the off chance of a better opportunity.
My point regarding the Star Alliance and QF was very much a case of saying, "Do you really think this could happen, because I don't think so". I agree, the mess involved would be unmanageable.
I was always told by the 'old men' of the profession that you should always take the first firm offer in aviation, you cannot afford to hang back and wait on the off chance of a better opportunity.
My point regarding the Star Alliance and QF was very much a case of saying, "Do you really think this could happen, because I don't think so". I agree, the mess involved would be unmanageable.
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Thanks a heap Blue Eagle.
With regard to the "unravelling" from one Loyalty Program to another (ie: Star Alliance to New World/Skyteam etc) it would be very interesting to see if it could actually be done, what would it cost (apart from the standard exit fees) and what exactly the true consequences would be.
At the moment all eyes are on United Airlines and their pending and probable entry into Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection.
One thing for sure will be that if they do enter Chapter 11 then if they emerge it will be in the guise of a very much reduced, leaner company a fraction of its current size and shape.
Also would the US govt sacrifice a major company like United (and all its staff, numerous pending orders etc etc) and not go injecting billions as required into that company and subsequently bolster the other companies such as American,Delta and Northwest?
Job losses would be inevitable but which will it be?
I know US Airways just scored a US$300m grant from the US government.
How deep are their pockets?
I guess only time will tell.
Also United in Chapter 11 will adversely impact the Star Alliance to a certain extent.
Cheers and safe flying.
With regard to the "unravelling" from one Loyalty Program to another (ie: Star Alliance to New World/Skyteam etc) it would be very interesting to see if it could actually be done, what would it cost (apart from the standard exit fees) and what exactly the true consequences would be.
At the moment all eyes are on United Airlines and their pending and probable entry into Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection.
One thing for sure will be that if they do enter Chapter 11 then if they emerge it will be in the guise of a very much reduced, leaner company a fraction of its current size and shape.
Also would the US govt sacrifice a major company like United (and all its staff, numerous pending orders etc etc) and not go injecting billions as required into that company and subsequently bolster the other companies such as American,Delta and Northwest?
Job losses would be inevitable but which will it be?
I know US Airways just scored a US$300m grant from the US government.
How deep are their pockets?
I guess only time will tell.
Also United in Chapter 11 will adversely impact the Star Alliance to a certain extent.
Cheers and safe flying.
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I'm not too sure of the point you are trying to make, littlefokkerfella, but if it helps you, I shall place a case of your "Scottish brown stuff" in the shed and assume we have a bet.
If not, I guess you are like Singapore Airlines - all PUFF & WIND?
If not, I guess you are like Singapore Airlines - all PUFF & WIND?
Last edited by Whiskery; 13th Oct 2002 at 04:59.
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Whiskery,
"I suggest it would take a pretty gutzzee move to start up a new airline in this present climate. " Your quote!!
The point I am trying to make is that Alliance have started up a new airline. They are playing their cards very close to the chest. I know very little and am at liberty to say less.
However a case of Scotch Whisky against a case of Crown Larger is very good odds.
Alliance may pull a big ferking rabbit out of their small hat!!!
And the bet is recorded in the public domain.
All I am saying is watch Alliance.
"I suggest it would take a pretty gutzzee move to start up a new airline in this present climate. " Your quote!!
The point I am trying to make is that Alliance have started up a new airline. They are playing their cards very close to the chest. I know very little and am at liberty to say less.
However a case of Scotch Whisky against a case of Crown Larger is very good odds.
Alliance may pull a big ferking rabbit out of their small hat!!!
And the bet is recorded in the public domain.
All I am saying is watch Alliance.
Something that hasn't been considered -
SQ starts playing up the '3rd airline in OZ' line to intentionally drop the QF share price.
QF still buys into ANZ
SQ buys BA's share of QF, at a much, much reduced price(just check out how far the Qantas share price has dropped) thus getting its foot firmly into the Australian market, VERY CHEAPLY. I'd like to see the difference in profit they would get from having 20% of QFs market share compared to them starting up another airline -I think buying into QF would be far more profitable
Far-fetched? I think it was interesting that GD made the comment recently about the need for a strong 'AustralASIAn Airline' to compete on the world market.
The Singaporeans might have some culture issues that don't translate well into a majority of workplaces, but one thing they are very clever about is money.
Don't bet against it, no matter how far fetched it appears.
SQ starts playing up the '3rd airline in OZ' line to intentionally drop the QF share price.
QF still buys into ANZ
SQ buys BA's share of QF, at a much, much reduced price(just check out how far the Qantas share price has dropped) thus getting its foot firmly into the Australian market, VERY CHEAPLY. I'd like to see the difference in profit they would get from having 20% of QFs market share compared to them starting up another airline -I think buying into QF would be far more profitable
Far-fetched? I think it was interesting that GD made the comment recently about the need for a strong 'AustralASIAn Airline' to compete on the world market.
The Singaporeans might have some culture issues that don't translate well into a majority of workplaces, but one thing they are very clever about is money.
Don't bet against it, no matter how far fetched it appears.
Last edited by mmmbop; 15th Oct 2002 at 23:19.
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Asian airline move unlikely
Asian airline move unlikely
By Steve Creedy
October 16, 2002
FORMER Ansett boss Rod Eddington does not expect Singapore Airlines to start a domestic airline in Australia.
Mr Eddington, now British Airways chief executive, said Singapore Airlines had already captured 95 per cent of its targeted leisure market and 99 per cent of business traffic by servicing the major Australian centres.
"The number of people it needs to fly between Australian cities is minimal and they can be covered with an interline deal with Qantas, which it has now," Mr Eddington told the latest edition of Orient Aviation magazine.
"I can't see why a full-service foreign airline would want to start up a domestic airline in Australia from scratch," he said.
Singapore Airlines chief executive Cheong Choong Kong said earlier this month the airline believed a third domestic carrier was viable.
But, he said, the Asian carrier was keeping its options open and those options extended beyond Australia.
He said war in Iraq would force Singapore to put any overseas investment plans on hold.
The fallout for airlines of the Bali bombing remains unclear, but analysts said it increased uncertainty and made an Australian move by the Singaporeans less likely.
Mr Eddington reiterated British Airways' determination to retain its 18 per cent stake in Qantas, which was recently diluted by the Qantas rights issue.
He told Orient Aviation: "I am committed to the Qantas relationship and I am keen to retain that shareholding. We have no intention of selling it to anyone."
Some analysts had suggested Singapore could replace BA as a cornerstone investor in Qantas.
By Steve Creedy
October 16, 2002
FORMER Ansett boss Rod Eddington does not expect Singapore Airlines to start a domestic airline in Australia.
Mr Eddington, now British Airways chief executive, said Singapore Airlines had already captured 95 per cent of its targeted leisure market and 99 per cent of business traffic by servicing the major Australian centres.
"The number of people it needs to fly between Australian cities is minimal and they can be covered with an interline deal with Qantas, which it has now," Mr Eddington told the latest edition of Orient Aviation magazine.
"I can't see why a full-service foreign airline would want to start up a domestic airline in Australia from scratch," he said.
Singapore Airlines chief executive Cheong Choong Kong said earlier this month the airline believed a third domestic carrier was viable.
But, he said, the Asian carrier was keeping its options open and those options extended beyond Australia.
He said war in Iraq would force Singapore to put any overseas investment plans on hold.
The fallout for airlines of the Bali bombing remains unclear, but analysts said it increased uncertainty and made an Australian move by the Singaporeans less likely.
Mr Eddington reiterated British Airways' determination to retain its 18 per cent stake in Qantas, which was recently diluted by the Qantas rights issue.
He told Orient Aviation: "I am committed to the Qantas relationship and I am keen to retain that shareholding. We have no intention of selling it to anyone."
Some analysts had suggested Singapore could replace BA as a cornerstone investor in Qantas.
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Eddington has failed to mention that the SQ business plan was targetting far more than just the "servicing the major Australian centres" from Singapore.
What is now clearer as a result of Eddington's comments is that the One World alliance with QF as a member, is very much intact. It also means that Air NZ will most probably also join (despite the Star Alliance exit penalties).
From what I have heard, SQ's modelling revolves around a full service domestic carrier, with code share and on carriage agreements with REX, Skywest and possibly Alliance.
The SQ model supposedly covers services between MEL - SYD - BNE - PER with ADL to follow.
Who knows the reality of where SQ's business plan is right now, but the almost certainty of Air NZ leaving Star following QF's announcement of a stake in the company at the end of the month, may provide a trigger point for a decision by SQ.
The problem of slots at Sydney is a furphy - If SACL can get a third operator to the terminals, some of the former AN slots will undoubtedly materialise. QF will not be able to hang on to the lot.
What is now clearer as a result of Eddington's comments is that the One World alliance with QF as a member, is very much intact. It also means that Air NZ will most probably also join (despite the Star Alliance exit penalties).
From what I have heard, SQ's modelling revolves around a full service domestic carrier, with code share and on carriage agreements with REX, Skywest and possibly Alliance.
The SQ model supposedly covers services between MEL - SYD - BNE - PER with ADL to follow.
Who knows the reality of where SQ's business plan is right now, but the almost certainty of Air NZ leaving Star following QF's announcement of a stake in the company at the end of the month, may provide a trigger point for a decision by SQ.
The problem of slots at Sydney is a furphy - If SACL can get a third operator to the terminals, some of the former AN slots will undoubtedly materialise. QF will not be able to hang on to the lot.
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littlefokkerfella - just to confirm this wager without all the if's, but's and duckshoving.
If Singapore Airlines starts up an Airline down here in Oz within the next 6 months,I shall present you with 12 bottles of Scotch Whiskey.
If not, you shall buy me 24 bottles of Crown Lager. Is that clear enough and are we in agreement?
Oh, and you're right, the odds are good. That's the only way we bookmakers can get punters in on a long shot!
If Singapore Airlines starts up an Airline down here in Oz within the next 6 months,I shall present you with 12 bottles of Scotch Whiskey.
If not, you shall buy me 24 bottles of Crown Lager. Is that clear enough and are we in agreement?
Oh, and you're right, the odds are good. That's the only way we bookmakers can get punters in on a long shot!
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[
B]Whiskery[/B]
I see you've given youself pretty good odds.
Are you saying that after 6 months all bets are off because then you concede there is a probabilty of them starting?.
B]Whiskery[/B]
I see you've given youself pretty good odds.
Are you saying that after 6 months all bets are off because then you concede there is a probabilty of them starting?.
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I attended a lunch at the press club yesterday where the speaker was Paul Cubbin from Rex.
Though there was no earth shattering announcement, his speech clearly inimated that Rex are in negotiation to being a feeder for a 3rd domestic carrier and that we are talking a 6 month timeframe.
Take it for what it's worth.
Though there was no earth shattering announcement, his speech clearly inimated that Rex are in negotiation to being a feeder for a 3rd domestic carrier and that we are talking a 6 month timeframe.
Take it for what it's worth.