Qantas time to command.

[hotnhigh]

Interesting to review the time lines to command. The current time to command for the most junior on the fleets:

A380: 31 years SYD
B787: 27.6 years PER
A330: 25.6 years PER
B737: 8 years SYD
A321: 6 years SYD

Things are looking up.

[By George]

Always fascinates me that time to command is a primary concern to pilots these days. I was so grateful to get into an airline I never considered it until it started getting close on the seniority list. It has always been around 10 ten years for a narrow body command give or take a couple of years. The aeroplane can't go without a co-pilot so you are still vital to the operation. It's a great way to learn too. Some of the captains I flew with had terrible CRM and it helped me to do better when it became my turn. As for the widebody dream, talk about the grass is greener. Terrible job sitting there for 14 hours, always tired and never home. You only fly the instrument panel, it doesn't matter what's bolted on behind.

[By George]

Always fascinates me that time to command is a primary concern to pilots these days. I was so grateful to get into an airline I never considered it until it started getting close on the seniority list. It has always been around 10 ten years for a narrow body command give or take a couple of years. The aeroplane can't go without a co-pilot so you are still vital to the operation. It's a great way to learn too. Some of the captains I flew with had terrible CRM and it helped me to do better when it became my turn. As for the widebody dream, talk about the grass is greener. Terrible job sitting there for 14 hours, always tired and never home. You only fly the instrument panel, it doesn't matter what's bolted on behind.

[CaptCloudbuster]

Things are actually looking up if you’re keen for an A321 or B737 Command.

Those who are able to seize the opportunity will do so.

[Thumb War]

I’m betting that widebody commands will also start to go more junior in the next few years. Once they jump the gap of 8 years of no hiring, the numbers will look near light speed

[Eaglerocker]

whats wide body FO looking like? will A330/A350 be same crew or is the mixed fleet flying only for SOs?

[Chad Gates]

A330 Sydney went down to a January 2020 hire. A330/350 will eventually be one category for all 3 ranks. It’s called Single Fleet Flying (SFF).

A320 Command is only 6 months longer to hold than A330 FO.

[By George]

Always fascinates me that time to command is a primary concern to pilots these days. I was so grateful to get into an airline I never considered it until it started getting close on the seniority list. It has always been around 10 ten years for a narrow body command give or take a couple of years. The aeroplane can't go without a co-pilot so you are still vital to the operation. It's a great way to learn too. Some of the captains I flew with had terrible CRM and it helped me to do better when it became my turn. As for the widebody dream, talk about the grass is greener. Terrible job sitting there for 14 hours, always tired and never home. You only fly the instrument panel, it doesn't matter what's bolted on behind.

[PolarSide]

Originally Posted by By George

Always fascinates me that time to command is a primary concern to pilots these days. I was so grateful to get into an airline I never considered it until it started getting close on the seniority list. It has always been around 10 ten years for a narrow body command give or take a couple of years. The aeroplane can't go without a co-pilot so you are still vital to the operation. It's a great way to learn too. Some of the captains I flew with had terrible CRM and it helped me to do better when it became my turn. As for the widebody dream, talk about the grass is greener. Terrible job sitting there for 14 hours, always tired and never home. You only fly the instrument panel, it doesn't matter what's bolted on behind.

Couldn’t agree more.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Originally Posted by By George

Always fascinates me that time to command is a primary concern to pilots these days. I was so grateful to get into an airline I never considered it until it started getting close on the seniority list. It has always been around 10 ten years for a narrow body command give or take a couple of years. The aeroplane can't go without a co-pilot so you are still vital to the operation. It's a great way to learn too. Some of the captains I flew with had terrible CRM and it helped me to do better when it became my turn. As for the widebody dream, talk about the grass is greener. Terrible job sitting there for 14 hours, always tired and never home. You only fly the instrument panel, it doesn't matter what's bolted on behind.

My sentiments exactly. If all you want is to get to the left seat as soon as humanly possible, chances are you’ll be the kind of SO/FO who simple goes through the motions, running the clock down until your shot at the top job comes. Join the company, do your job well (whatever the rank) and take a promotion if and when it comes along.

[woke2022]

Originally Posted by hotnhigh

Interesting to review the time lines to command. The current time to command for the most junior on the fleets:

A380: 31 years SYD
B787: 27.6 years PER
A330: 25.6 years PER
B737: 8 years SYD
A321: 6 years SYD

Things are looking up.

Great news that commands can now be held after 6/8 years and will only come down with expansion and retirements.
I’m sure there will be some of the old guard who think to be a mighty and prestigious Qantas Captain then 20+ plus years of experience engaging the autopilot at 200ft is needed but they would be turning in there early grave to know easyJet having been flying A320s successfully with 19 year old FOs and 22 year old captains for a long time. Likewise Middle Eastern carriers having a large amount of mid 30 year old captains!
Bring on the refresh

[Capt Fathom]

Originally Posted by woke2022

I’m sure there will be some of the old guard who think to be a mighty and prestigious Qantas Captain then 20+ plus years of experience engaging the autopilot at 200ft is needed

The 'old guard' as you refer to would have started in the mid 90's. I think you probably mean the 'old old old guard.'

[neville_nobody]

Originally Posted by By George

Always fascinates me that time to command is a primary concern to pilots these days. I was so grateful to get into an airline I never considered it until it started getting close on the seniority list. It has always been around 10 ten years for a narrow body command give or take a couple of years. The aeroplane can't go without a co-pilot so you are still vital to the operation. It's a great way to learn too. Some of the captains I flew with had terrible CRM and it helped me to do better when it became my turn..

Times have changed though people are already turning up at Australian Airline interviews in their late 20s/early 30s with narrow body or wide body jet FO experience or command time.

Spending 95% of your time at QF as a Captain makes a huge financial difference. Not to mention the other perks that come with a command. I’m not sure you would be that keen to “do your time” in the RHS in Australia if you have been flying around the US or the world for the past 10 years already.

[morno]

Originally Posted by neville_nobody

Times have changed though people are already turning up at Australian Airline interviews in their late 20s/early 30s with narrow body or wide body jet FO experience or command time.

Spending 95% of your time at QF as a Captain makes a huge financial difference. Not to mention the other perks that come with a command. I’m not sure you would be that keen to “do your time” in the RHS in Australia if you have been flying around the US or the world for the past 10 years already.

What he said. A lot of the current crop of “junior” pilots are older, quite experienced and have done the job of captain before. We don’t particularly want to sit back and do our time.

[Stationair8]

Depends if QLink are given the A380 to operate, Qantas get gifted Rex by Albo, or the old black swan event that happens in aviation.

[KhoaSanRoad]

Last A321 Command 3 Years.

[C441]

Originally Posted by woke2022

Great news that commands can now be held after 6/8 years and will only come down with expansion and retirements.
I’m sure there will be some of the old guard who think to be a mighty and prestigious Qantas Captain then 20+ plus years of experience engaging the autopilot at 200ft is needed but they would be turning in there early grave to know easyJet having been flying A320s successfully with 19 year old FOs and 22 year old captains for a long time. Likewise Middle Eastern carriers having a large amount of mid 30 year old captains!
Bring on the refresh

Really? Few of the "old guard" seemed too concerned when the 1980's recruits in their early to mid 30s were getting 767 commands in 10 years or less. Oh and those same 80s recruits loved hand flying the jet at every opportunity….but that's probably because the 767 was very enjoyable to fly both physically and in the company you kept when at work.

Certainly those who joined in the late 60s and 70s waited longer but they were very different circumstances when F/O and Command positions dried up completely but not as a result of subsidiaries acquiring the flying.

[kellykelpie]

Originally Posted by morno

What he said. A lot of the current crop of “junior” pilots are older, quite experienced and have done the job of captain before. We don’t particularly want to sit back and do our time.

I don’t think this is any different to how it was decades ago - lots of experienced pilots joined Qantas following the collapse of Ansett. What seems to have changed is the level of entitlement amongst a very few that appear to have snuck in….

[JW55]

Can anyone reliably provide the same info for Jetstar bases, for an experianced new joiner.

[Australopithecus]

You guys don’t do maths? The recent low seniority upgrades are an anomaly owing to the lost decade of no hiring. A 7 year upgrade should be considered more like a 17 year number. Eventually the required seniority will climb back to the long term average.

The short haul fleet is going through a temporary increase before a long term decrease in aircraft. The long haul fleet replacement orders compared to the aging fleet size would not give me hope for rapid promotion.

[EXEK1996]

Jetstar had 3 unfilled SYD Narrowbody Commands after the last allocation.

Theoretically you could get a DEC, if not probably take just over 12 months to do your 2 sim checks.

SYD based.

[donpizmeov]

Originally Posted by Australopithecus

You guys don’t do maths? The recent low seniority upgrades are an anomaly owing to the lost decade of no hiring. A 7 year upgrade should be considered more like a 17 year number. Eventually the required seniority will climb back to the long term average.

The short haul fleet is going through a temporary increase before a long term decrease in aircraft. The long haul fleet replacement orders compared to the aging fleet size would not give me hope for rapid promotion.

Ditching the 1970s option of still having SOs, and crewing 2 Capts and 2 FOs on ULR flights (like most competitors do) would help the seniority wait. Imagine the hundreds of thousands of dollars difference that would make over a QF career.