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Four Corners B737 Max

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Old 26th May 2024, 09:03
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Four Corners B737 Max

Four Corners Monday night, look at issues with the 737Max and Boeing.
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Old 26th May 2024, 09:07
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Wouldn’t fly in a Max, just changed my flights to Fiji to avoid the Max and go on the 330.
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Old 26th May 2024, 10:07
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Originally Posted by Stationair8
Four Corners Monday night, look at issues with the 737Max and Boeing.
well TJ and 1,000,000 of his closest friends chose the Max8 and nary one lost (oh except for their seats!)
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Old 26th May 2024, 10:34
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Makes you wonder what problems the MAX 10 will present itself with. That’s if it can even get certified.

You think the -8 was pushing the old design too far, the -10 is going even further. I understand it comes with a new landing gear design. Perhaps the FAA need to say nope and just end the program with the -8 and -9.

Virgin just need to bite the bullet and order a small sub fleet A321XLR.
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Old 26th May 2024, 12:00
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MAX 10 Problems? The -10 is longer so it should be more stable. Certification flights after the MCAS 1.0 fiasco were done using the short -7 for this very reason.
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Old 26th May 2024, 20:07
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion
Wouldn’t fly in a Max, just changed my flights to Fiji to avoid the Max and go on the 330.
Luckily there have been no A330 accidents. Oh, wait a minute…..!
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Old 26th May 2024, 22:44
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Originally Posted by Capt Fathom
Luckily there have been no A330 accidents. Oh, wait a minute…..!
If a driver fell asleep at the wheel and had a head on collision: It wouldn’t influence me to avoid that vehicle.
If a car steered of it’s own volition into the oncoming traffic, with the driver trying to fight it: I wouldn’t get in that model.
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Old 26th May 2024, 22:47
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Didn’t the QF Learmonth upset have an A330 attempting to ‘steer itself’ into the ground from altitude……..
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Old 26th May 2024, 23:50
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MAX 10 Problems? The -10 is longer so it should be more stable. Certification flights after the MCAS 1.0 fiasco were done using the short -7 for this very reason.
With nearly a 10T increase in the MTOW with the same wing as the -700. So you solve one problem and subsequently generate a few more. It was time for a new design 20 years ago.
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Old 26th May 2024, 23:58
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With nearly a 10T increase in the MTOW with the same wing as the -700. So you solve one problem and subsequently generate a few more. It was time for a new design 20 years ago.
What are these “few more” problems that the -10 has?
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Old 27th May 2024, 00:33
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What are these “few more” problems that the -10 has?
I wasn't talking about the -10 specifically just saying that everything aerodynamically is a compromise. Sure the bigger airframe may fix MCAS issues but the Max-10 approach speeds will be insane. That in turn will generate ATC issues especially in Sydney. Runway performance will be worse which is an issue in Australia. The higher weights have led to a landing gear redesign but still use the same hydraulic system and type certificate etc etc
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Old 27th May 2024, 00:34
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Originally Posted by Capt Fathom
Luckily there have been no A330 accidents. Oh, wait a minute…..!

Big difference, Boeing knowingly put a defective aircraft design into production knowing the risk of hull loss should the MCAS fail. It cost 350 people their lives and Boeing got caught out cutting corners and putting profit ahead of safety. The limp dick regulator let them get away with it and since then we have seen other numerous warning signs that many Boeing programmes are also a bit dodgy. What Boeing has done is criminal and people should have gone to jail, they got the soft touch and the result of that is more quality issues including a fuselage plug failing on a 737 which very nearly resulted in another aircraft loss. O would take any modern Airbus over a Boeing any chance I get. The latest whistle blower has warned 787s may start to break apart in flight, Boeing says they won’t, after the last five years I am not so sure I trust what Boeing says.
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Old 27th May 2024, 02:44
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Originally Posted by nomess

Virgin just need to bite the bullet and order a small sub fleet A321XLR.
The order book is so full they'd be lucky to get a delivery until well into next decade.

Originally Posted by Ollie Onion
The latest whistle blower has warned 787s may start to break apart in flight, Boeing says they won’t, after the last five years I am not so sure I trust what Boeing says.
The one thing pointing against that is the 787 has been in service now for 13 years, and many in service today would've been subject to D checks where any issues from either manufacturing or airframe fatigue would have been uncovered, and there doesn't seem to have been any long term issues uncovered that would suggest 787s are more prone to 'breaking up in flight'. On the contrary the MAX MCAS issue had presented itself multiple times within the type's first 18 months in service.
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Old 27th May 2024, 03:13
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody
The higher weights have led to a landing gear redesign but still use the same hydraulic system and type certificate etc etc
The landing gear design wasn't redesigned for the higher weight (higher weights mean it needs to be strengthened, not redesigned).
Rather, the gear redesign is to give some more ground clearance (mainly for T/O and landing rotation angles).
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Old 27th May 2024, 06:53
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Boeing knowingly put a defective aircraft design into production knowing the risk of hull loss should the MCAS fail.
That simply is not true. An MCAS failure alone would not cause a hull loss. You are misrepreenting the issue. The whole crux was LACK OF CREW TRAINING about MCAS as Boeing did not believe it was required. They were wrong. There was a trim runaway procedure which mitigated the risk but some crews did not apply this procedure. Simply turn the trim OFF.

​​​​​​​ On the contrary the MAX MCAS issue had presented itself multiple times within the type's first 18 months in service.
Have a look at those MULTIPLE TIMES and you will see that most were well handled by the crew following a trim runaway procedure, as provided for by Boeing in the QRH.
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Old 27th May 2024, 08:41
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Here we go again...
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Old 27th May 2024, 09:04
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Yes indeed LB. Please tell me which of my statements is incorrect.

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Old 27th May 2024, 09:21
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001
That simply is not true. An MCAS failure alone would not cause a hull loss. You are misrepreenting the issue. The whole crux was LACK OF CREW TRAINING about MCAS as Boeing did not believe it was required. They were wrong. There was a trim runaway procedure which mitigated the risk but some crews did not apply this procedure. Simply turn the trim OFF.

Have a look at those MULTIPLE TIMES and you will see that most were well handled by the crew following a trim runaway procedure, as provided for by Boeing in the QRH.
What you say is simply untrue, Boeing put in the MCAS system and elected to not tell, or ‘hide’ that fact from the crew who were to operate it. They had internal discussions around the risk of MCAS faults happening and if Pilots would be able to deal with those issues safely. Boeing decided this was ‘low risk’ and the FAA agreed despite several engineers within Boeing raising concerns. In the subsequent congressional enquiry stated the two accidents were caused by:

“…The horrific culmination of a series of faulty technical assumptions by Boeing’s engineers, a lack of transparency on the part of Boeing’s management, and grossly insufficient oversight by the FAA.”

This lack of oversight and care by Boeing resulted in Boeing putting an aircraft into service knowing that the MCAS system and MCAS failures could result in a loss of control if not handled properly. Internal memos have that phrase about ‘loss of control in them’. So with this risk, what did Boeing do? Pushed the aircraft into service whilst effectively hiding the information about MCAS from the Crew who were flying them. So please tell me who is responsible for this?

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Old 27th May 2024, 09:29
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MCAS 1.0 started over and over again whenever it felt like being triggered.
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Old 28th May 2024, 06:16
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My lasting takeaway from all of this....

Instead of taking a $65M parachute, Muilenburg should spend the rest of his life in jail!
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