Subsidiary Crewing Issues
Thread Starter
Subsidiary Crewing Issues
I’m hearing Network Aviation are offering $4,005 pre tax payments to its Pilots every 3 months to try and stop them leaving. Have also started employing Toowoomba cadets.
NJS will be trying to add 50% more crew over the next 5 years paying the lowest base salary to any A220 Pilot world-wide. I’d imagine cadets will be on the way there as GA Pilots won’t touch this company anymore.
With these businesses running core domestic routes for Qantas this is not a good position to be in!
NJS will be trying to add 50% more crew over the next 5 years paying the lowest base salary to any A220 Pilot world-wide. I’d imagine cadets will be on the way there as GA Pilots won’t touch this company anymore.
With these businesses running core domestic routes for Qantas this is not a good position to be in!
Last edited by aussieflyboy; 24th May 2024 at 01:46.
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Top Answer
23rd May 2024, 23:47
I think NAA are done. I give it 12-18 months. 200 pilots with 2+ leaving per week isn’t going to last long.
You can’t just dump hundreds of cadets in there, because the check and trainers are leaving too. Plus, ramp up cadet-straight-to-jet-transport-control-seat too quickly and you’ll end up with a prang on your hands. CASA will need to watch it all very closely.
Bonza didn’t go out with a whimper, they failed spectacularly with incredible debts. Rex are teetering and continuing to bleed cash. NAA have the most pissed off pilots in the country and they’re pouring out the door. NJS pilots are similarly disenchanted with how they were treated during negotiations and they’re all refusing to bid to the A220. They’re going to have 29 brand new jets with zero pilots. And the ones who did go across and got a free endorsement and are already leaving.
Unfortunately, it’s all beyond repair now. Even if NAA were to cancel the determination and offer a significantly better deal (+30%), the damage is done.
Going to be some pretty hard conversations behind closed doors at Mascot with a please explain for one head of IR and former union president. So smug and proud of himself sipping Grange in the lounge, but has really created untold problems for the group into the future.
There’s a significant chunk of NAA pilots in the internal hold, and they’re leaving for the Middle East because mainline won’t give them a start date. Internal holds used to allow Qantas to trap and keep people - now it’s just doing the opposite and forcing them overseas. If Qantas want to shore up pilot supply, they need to give the NAA hold file pilots a start ASAP before they head off to the sandpit.
Mods need to be aware of deliberate and calculated sabotaging of threads by management. They happily came along to the previous NAA thread and pushed their fear campaigns to get yes votes, but then when they decide they want the whole thread shut down they resort to personal attacks knowing the mods will have to close it. It’s a way for them to control narrative. Perhaps rather than close the whole thread which is want they are wanting, just delete the post and sin-bin the offender?
I’m sure sameold will be along shortly trying to get this one shut down too.
You can’t just dump hundreds of cadets in there, because the check and trainers are leaving too. Plus, ramp up cadet-straight-to-jet-transport-control-seat too quickly and you’ll end up with a prang on your hands. CASA will need to watch it all very closely.
Bonza didn’t go out with a whimper, they failed spectacularly with incredible debts. Rex are teetering and continuing to bleed cash. NAA have the most pissed off pilots in the country and they’re pouring out the door. NJS pilots are similarly disenchanted with how they were treated during negotiations and they’re all refusing to bid to the A220. They’re going to have 29 brand new jets with zero pilots. And the ones who did go across and got a free endorsement and are already leaving.
Unfortunately, it’s all beyond repair now. Even if NAA were to cancel the determination and offer a significantly better deal (+30%), the damage is done.
Going to be some pretty hard conversations behind closed doors at Mascot with a please explain for one head of IR and former union president. So smug and proud of himself sipping Grange in the lounge, but has really created untold problems for the group into the future.
There’s a significant chunk of NAA pilots in the internal hold, and they’re leaving for the Middle East because mainline won’t give them a start date. Internal holds used to allow Qantas to trap and keep people - now it’s just doing the opposite and forcing them overseas. If Qantas want to shore up pilot supply, they need to give the NAA hold file pilots a start ASAP before they head off to the sandpit.
Mods need to be aware of deliberate and calculated sabotaging of threads by management. They happily came along to the previous NAA thread and pushed their fear campaigns to get yes votes, but then when they decide they want the whole thread shut down they resort to personal attacks knowing the mods will have to close it. It’s a way for them to control narrative. Perhaps rather than close the whole thread which is want they are wanting, just delete the post and sin-bin the offender?
I’m sure sameold will be along shortly trying to get this one shut down too.
Think you will find another company in the South Pacific paying less for A220 pilots
qantas in general including mainline payes new staff the least in the industry. This includes all departments, only the misty eyed newbies blinded by the brand power of the red tail continue lining up to be paid barely above minimum wage, even menzie's and dnata pays there customer service staff better and gives them better rosters
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I think NAA are done. I give it 12-18 months. 200 pilots with 2+ leaving per week isn’t going to last long.
You can’t just dump hundreds of cadets in there, because the check and trainers are leaving too. Plus, ramp up cadet-straight-to-jet-transport-control-seat too quickly and you’ll end up with a prang on your hands. CASA will need to watch it all very closely.
Bonza didn’t go out with a whimper, they failed spectacularly with incredible debts. Rex are teetering and continuing to bleed cash. NAA have the most pissed off pilots in the country and they’re pouring out the door. NJS pilots are similarly disenchanted with how they were treated during negotiations and they’re all refusing to bid to the A220. They’re going to have 29 brand new jets with zero pilots. And the ones who did go across and got a free endorsement and are already leaving.
Unfortunately, it’s all beyond repair now. Even if NAA were to cancel the determination and offer a significantly better deal (+30%), the damage is done.
Going to be some pretty hard conversations behind closed doors at Mascot with a please explain for one head of IR and former union president. So smug and proud of himself sipping Grange in the lounge, but has really created untold problems for the group into the future.
There’s a significant chunk of NAA pilots in the internal hold, and they’re leaving for the Middle East because mainline won’t give them a start date. Internal holds used to allow Qantas to trap and keep people - now it’s just doing the opposite and forcing them overseas. If Qantas want to shore up pilot supply, they need to give the NAA hold file pilots a start ASAP before they head off to the sandpit.
Mods need to be aware of deliberate and calculated sabotaging of threads by management. They happily came along to the previous NAA thread and pushed their fear campaigns to get yes votes, but then when they decide they want the whole thread shut down they resort to personal attacks knowing the mods will have to close it. It’s a way for them to control narrative. Perhaps rather than close the whole thread which is want they are wanting, just delete the post and sin-bin the offender?
I’m sure sameold will be along shortly trying to get this one shut down too.
You can’t just dump hundreds of cadets in there, because the check and trainers are leaving too. Plus, ramp up cadet-straight-to-jet-transport-control-seat too quickly and you’ll end up with a prang on your hands. CASA will need to watch it all very closely.
Bonza didn’t go out with a whimper, they failed spectacularly with incredible debts. Rex are teetering and continuing to bleed cash. NAA have the most pissed off pilots in the country and they’re pouring out the door. NJS pilots are similarly disenchanted with how they were treated during negotiations and they’re all refusing to bid to the A220. They’re going to have 29 brand new jets with zero pilots. And the ones who did go across and got a free endorsement and are already leaving.
Unfortunately, it’s all beyond repair now. Even if NAA were to cancel the determination and offer a significantly better deal (+30%), the damage is done.
Going to be some pretty hard conversations behind closed doors at Mascot with a please explain for one head of IR and former union president. So smug and proud of himself sipping Grange in the lounge, but has really created untold problems for the group into the future.
There’s a significant chunk of NAA pilots in the internal hold, and they’re leaving for the Middle East because mainline won’t give them a start date. Internal holds used to allow Qantas to trap and keep people - now it’s just doing the opposite and forcing them overseas. If Qantas want to shore up pilot supply, they need to give the NAA hold file pilots a start ASAP before they head off to the sandpit.
Mods need to be aware of deliberate and calculated sabotaging of threads by management. They happily came along to the previous NAA thread and pushed their fear campaigns to get yes votes, but then when they decide they want the whole thread shut down they resort to personal attacks knowing the mods will have to close it. It’s a way for them to control narrative. Perhaps rather than close the whole thread which is want they are wanting, just delete the post and sin-bin the offender?
I’m sure sameold will be along shortly trying to get this one shut down too.
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There is a real problem here for the Qantas Group. They have consistently moved flying to the subsidiaries either through new routes or outsourcing existing routes to the extent that the subsidiary companies are now critical to the whole groups plan rather than being important ancillary components.
I would be interested if someone can provide a % of QF short haul routes that are now operated by subsidiaries.
To maintain the Groups market share ( let alone expand it) the company needs X jet capable pilots. The number of pilots gaining CPLs is always greater than the number of pilots who will be suitable and available to operate jets from the left seat ten years later. At the moment the numbers don’t stack up because there is a draw on pilots away from the Group which is greater than what can be recruited and trained. The draw is from retirements and old fashioned competition for staff. There is a reason that Airlines like Singapore and Emirates are trying hard to retain their staff, and start ups like Riyadh are paying top dollar to attract staff. This will pay off within the decade when they are able to increase market share while others contract.
The first step in managing this at a board level is to retain the pilots that are already within the group. There are obvious ways to do this.
I would be interested if someone can provide a % of QF short haul routes that are now operated by subsidiaries.
To maintain the Groups market share ( let alone expand it) the company needs X jet capable pilots. The number of pilots gaining CPLs is always greater than the number of pilots who will be suitable and available to operate jets from the left seat ten years later. At the moment the numbers don’t stack up because there is a draw on pilots away from the Group which is greater than what can be recruited and trained. The draw is from retirements and old fashioned competition for staff. There is a reason that Airlines like Singapore and Emirates are trying hard to retain their staff, and start ups like Riyadh are paying top dollar to attract staff. This will pay off within the decade when they are able to increase market share while others contract.
The first step in managing this at a board level is to retain the pilots that are already within the group. There are obvious ways to do this.
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Mods need to be aware of deliberate and calculated sabotaging of threads by management. They happily came along to the previous NAA thread and pushed their fear campaigns to get yes votes, but then when they decide they want the whole thread shut down they resort to personal attacks knowing the mods will have to close it. It’s a way for them to control narrative. Perhaps rather than close the whole thread which is want they are wanting, just delete the post and sin-bin the offender?
As the thread starter of the locked Network Aviation EBA with 550 000 views and 1 572 posts, those who want to limit discussion simply mention a period of time and or start the person attacks.
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I think NAA are done. I give it 12-18 months. 200 pilots with 2+ leaving per week isn’t going to last long.
You can’t just dump hundreds of cadets in there, because the check and trainers are leaving too. Plus, ramp up cadet-straight-to-jet-transport-control-seat too quickly and you’ll end up with a prang on your hands. CASA will need to watch it all very closely.
Bonza didn’t go out with a whimper, they failed spectacularly with incredible debts. Rex are teetering and continuing to bleed cash. NAA have the most pissed off pilots in the country and they’re pouring out the door. NJS pilots are similarly disenchanted with how they were treated during negotiations and they’re all refusing to bid to the A220. They’re going to have 29 brand new jets with zero pilots. And the ones who did go across and got a free endorsement and are already leaving.
Unfortunately, it’s all beyond repair now. Even if NAA were to cancel the determination and offer a significantly better deal (+30%), the damage is done.
Going to be some pretty hard conversations behind closed doors at Mascot with a please explain for one head of IR and former union president. So smug and proud of himself sipping Grange in the lounge, but has really created untold problems for the group into the future.
There’s a significant chunk of NAA pilots in the internal hold, and they’re leaving for the Middle East because mainline won’t give them a start date. Internal holds used to allow Qantas to trap and keep people - now it’s just doing the opposite and forcing them overseas. If Qantas want to shore up pilot supply, they need to give the NAA hold file pilots a start ASAP before they head off to the sandpit.
Mods need to be aware of deliberate and calculated sabotaging of threads by management. They happily came along to the previous NAA thread and pushed their fear campaigns to get yes votes, but then when they decide they want the whole thread shut down they resort to personal attacks knowing the mods will have to close it. It’s a way for them to control narrative. Perhaps rather than close the whole thread which is want they are wanting, just delete the post and sin-bin the offender?
I’m sure sameold will be along shortly trying to get this one shut down too.
You can’t just dump hundreds of cadets in there, because the check and trainers are leaving too. Plus, ramp up cadet-straight-to-jet-transport-control-seat too quickly and you’ll end up with a prang on your hands. CASA will need to watch it all very closely.
Bonza didn’t go out with a whimper, they failed spectacularly with incredible debts. Rex are teetering and continuing to bleed cash. NAA have the most pissed off pilots in the country and they’re pouring out the door. NJS pilots are similarly disenchanted with how they were treated during negotiations and they’re all refusing to bid to the A220. They’re going to have 29 brand new jets with zero pilots. And the ones who did go across and got a free endorsement and are already leaving.
Unfortunately, it’s all beyond repair now. Even if NAA were to cancel the determination and offer a significantly better deal (+30%), the damage is done.
Going to be some pretty hard conversations behind closed doors at Mascot with a please explain for one head of IR and former union president. So smug and proud of himself sipping Grange in the lounge, but has really created untold problems for the group into the future.
There’s a significant chunk of NAA pilots in the internal hold, and they’re leaving for the Middle East because mainline won’t give them a start date. Internal holds used to allow Qantas to trap and keep people - now it’s just doing the opposite and forcing them overseas. If Qantas want to shore up pilot supply, they need to give the NAA hold file pilots a start ASAP before they head off to the sandpit.
Mods need to be aware of deliberate and calculated sabotaging of threads by management. They happily came along to the previous NAA thread and pushed their fear campaigns to get yes votes, but then when they decide they want the whole thread shut down they resort to personal attacks knowing the mods will have to close it. It’s a way for them to control narrative. Perhaps rather than close the whole thread which is want they are wanting, just delete the post and sin-bin the offender?
I’m sure sameold will be along shortly trying to get this one shut down too.
The manipulation of the threads is very obvious.
it would be nice to have posters verified as pilots. Some of the comments are laughable.
locking the thread lets the bean counter trolls win. Ban them, block their IP and email. Shore, they’ll come back, but at least it takes time.
gross little parasites.
QF have talked the talk about change, now let’s see them walk $$$$$$$$$!$$$!!
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It certainly does make sense but I wonder if that is going to be as hard as getting toothpaste back into the tube. Have to wonder though, which current red-tail subsidiaries will go to which of the 2 surviving red-tail AOCs? EFA absorbed by mainline, with the current QLink branded aircraft all to that AOC?
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Thread Starter
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It certainly does make sense but I wonder if that is going to be as hard as getting toothpaste back into the tube. Have to wonder though, which current red-tail subsidiaries will go to which of the 2 surviving red-tail AOCs? EFA absorbed by mainline, with the current QLink branded aircraft all to that
Integrating NJS would be more difficult as it’s a new type for the QF AOC but would be relatively easily achievable and cost saving realised relatively quickly if you factor in the savings by not having brand new 220s pushed up against the fence because NJS can’t crew them.
Simply allow each pilot group to join the bottom of each others lists and you keep everyone happy.
The divide and conquer approach is no longer working so you have too many AOCs that are no longer fit for their original purpose.
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Sometimes Qantas cut off their nose to spite their face. In the 1990s an offer was made to Strong for a B scale on the 747 to crew the freighters which were been flown by I think Polar Air. The deal was 10% lower wages and the flying to be built into lines with A scale flying for efficiency. If senior pilots didn’t want to do it they didn’t have to but it would have provided more promotion. Qantas of course rejected it. Fast forward to today and I wonder how much more they are paying Atlas over what their own pilots could have done it for.
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Sometimes Qantas cut off their nose to spite their face. In the 1990s an offer was made to Strong for a B scale on the 747 to crew the freighters which were been flown by I think Polar Air. The deal was 10% lower wages and the flying to be built into lines with A scale flying for efficiency. If senior pilots didn’t want to do it they didn’t have to but it would have provided more promotion. Qantas of course rejected it. Fast forward to today and I wonder how much more they are paying Atlas over what their own pilots could have done it for.
Sometimes Qantas cut off their nose to spite their face. In the 1990s an offer was made to Strong for a B scale on the 747 to crew the freighters which were been flown by I think Polar Air. The deal was 10% lower wages and the flying to be built into lines with A scale flying for efficiency. If senior pilots didn’t want to do it they didn’t have to but it would have provided more promotion. Qantas of course rejected it. Fast forward to today and I wonder how much more they are paying Atlas over what their own pilots could have done it for.
They pulled the deal at the 11th hour, apparently costing around $2m.
So i very much doubt QF ML could run it cheaper than what they contract to Atlas for.
Cadets being pumped into places out west isn’t the answer. The majority don’t come from out that way, and all have other ambitions.