Horizon Airlines shutdown?
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Horizon Airlines shutdown?
Have heard from various sources, and from another bulletin board that Horizon have been grounded, both RPT and freighter sides. Any truth to this?
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People,
I don't know the circumstances surrounding the matter. However, please be very sensitive with your comments in this thread until whatever the problem may be is resolved. There is the potential to affect the present employment of our brother and sister pilots ...... and, if other thread commentaries are to be believed, this operator might well be an increasing source of on-going employment for you or your colleague pilots ..
Softly, softly ...
I don't know the circumstances surrounding the matter. However, please be very sensitive with your comments in this thread until whatever the problem may be is resolved. There is the potential to affect the present employment of our brother and sister pilots ...... and, if other thread commentaries are to be believed, this operator might well be an increasing source of on-going employment for you or your colleague pilots ..
Softly, softly ...
Last edited by john_tullamarine; 4th Sep 2002 at 01:55.
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A very brief interview with Horizon Airlines General Manager can be read here .
It sheds a little light on the reason's behind it all.
I hope that it all gets sorted out quickly, Horizon's have a lot of potential
It sheds a little light on the reason's behind it all.
I hope that it all gets sorted out quickly, Horizon's have a lot of potential
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Why didn't they have one of their senior C & T pilots approved to act as Acting Chief Pilot/ Deputy Chief Pilot. Most of the large charter companies operating turbine equipment and under a CAR217 operation have at least one C & T pilot approved by CASA to carry out the roles of the Chief Pilot, when he/she is absent (ie on leave).
I know they (Horizon) say they have been waiting on CASA to interview their choice for a new CP, but these guys have been operating turbine equipment since 97, they have operated RPT before and have been operating the 748's for at least 3 years so you would think they would have someone 'approved' as Acting Chief Pilot.
This will cost them more than money, their reputation has suffered, which is not good for a company trying to get the trust of the towns they serve on their new RPT routes.
I know they (Horizon) say they have been waiting on CASA to interview their choice for a new CP, but these guys have been operating turbine equipment since 97, they have operated RPT before and have been operating the 748's for at least 3 years so you would think they would have someone 'approved' as Acting Chief Pilot.
This will cost them more than money, their reputation has suffered, which is not good for a company trying to get the trust of the towns they serve on their new RPT routes.
"We’ve got the applicants sitting there it’s just a matter of waiting for CASA to process them..."
Nero fiddles whilst Rome burns!
Bentandtwisted, there is no such thing in legislation as an approved Acting or Deputy Chief Pilot. It is possible to have another pilot complete the CASA CP approval process (if you have a cooperative local CASA office), but the "Instrument of Authorisation" still needs to be issued. Whilst that is only one sheet of paper, I'm sure it can easily be stretched out to a week or so at busy times.
I would be very cautious of the senior approved CAR 217 pilot also completing the CP approval process as the operartor may end up without an approved Training & Checking Organisation if the T&C pilot becomes CP.
Nero fiddles whilst Rome burns!
Bentandtwisted, there is no such thing in legislation as an approved Acting or Deputy Chief Pilot. It is possible to have another pilot complete the CASA CP approval process (if you have a cooperative local CASA office), but the "Instrument of Authorisation" still needs to be issued. Whilst that is only one sheet of paper, I'm sure it can easily be stretched out to a week or so at busy times.
I would be very cautious of the senior approved CAR 217 pilot also completing the CP approval process as the operartor may end up without an approved Training & Checking Organisation if the T&C pilot becomes CP.
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Torres,
You are correct, Acting/Deputy Chief Pilot does not appear in any CAO/REG (yet), however like I said most large companies will apply to CASA for one of their pilots to Act as Chief Pilot when the Chief Pilot is absent. Companies such as Jet-craft, Airtex etc have at most times had someone approved by CASA and to act as Acting Chief Pilot. In fact at one stage I also held this approval and I still have the certificate issued by CASA. It says;
Instrument Number:-BAOFO/--/--
Civil Aviation Act 1988
Civil Aviation Orders
Approval of Appointment As Acting Chief Pilot
I, name withheld, on behalf of CASA, under Appendix 1 of section 82.0 of the Civil Aviation Orders, approve the appointment of
Bentandtwisted
(Aviation Reference Number -----------)
to act as Chief Pilot with
Company ABC
(Aviation Reference Number -----------)
during times of absence of the appointed Chief Pilot.
Signed
---------------
Civil Aviation Safety Authority.
Yes I had to be interviewed by CASA, but at least the company I worked for had a Chief Pilot 365 days of the year. The Chief Pilot could take holidays at any time and the company and CASA always had a Chief Pilot to contact (the appointed CP or me as the Acting CP).
I think you will also find that the new regs will have "Deputy/Acting Chief Pilot" included.
You are correct, Acting/Deputy Chief Pilot does not appear in any CAO/REG (yet), however like I said most large companies will apply to CASA for one of their pilots to Act as Chief Pilot when the Chief Pilot is absent. Companies such as Jet-craft, Airtex etc have at most times had someone approved by CASA and to act as Acting Chief Pilot. In fact at one stage I also held this approval and I still have the certificate issued by CASA. It says;
Instrument Number:-BAOFO/--/--
Civil Aviation Act 1988
Civil Aviation Orders
Approval of Appointment As Acting Chief Pilot
I, name withheld, on behalf of CASA, under Appendix 1 of section 82.0 of the Civil Aviation Orders, approve the appointment of
Bentandtwisted
(Aviation Reference Number -----------)
to act as Chief Pilot with
Company ABC
(Aviation Reference Number -----------)
during times of absence of the appointed Chief Pilot.
Signed
---------------
Civil Aviation Safety Authority.
Yes I had to be interviewed by CASA, but at least the company I worked for had a Chief Pilot 365 days of the year. The Chief Pilot could take holidays at any time and the company and CASA always had a Chief Pilot to contact (the appointed CP or me as the Acting CP).
I think you will also find that the new regs will have "Deputy/Acting Chief Pilot" included.
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Anyone have info if CASA have cut through the red tape and got this mess that Horizon has, all sorted out? Every day that slips by is hurting their reputation with the QF Link network. Any fall out on the cargo side? Again, surely this is straining the friendship with AAE.
mauswara. I would be very surprised. I think I heard Bikkies Jnr is in WA.
bentandtwisted. Very interesting document and a very practical and commonsence approach from whoever in CASA organised it. (If my guess of your location is correct, I think I know who arranged it in CASA.) But lack of standards between CASA offices may result in that being the approach by one office, and refused by another. Certainly a CASA person, now possibly close to Horizon, absolutely refused me similar CP approval only a couple of years ago. That same person also tried to stop our CP taking leave! He wasn't the brightest pin in the cushion!
bentandtwisted. Very interesting document and a very practical and commonsence approach from whoever in CASA organised it. (If my guess of your location is correct, I think I know who arranged it in CASA.) But lack of standards between CASA offices may result in that being the approach by one office, and refused by another. Certainly a CASA person, now possibly close to Horizon, absolutely refused me similar CP approval only a couple of years ago. That same person also tried to stop our CP taking leave! He wasn't the brightest pin in the cushion!
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Torres,
Mate spot on re CASA ,"lack of standards between CASA offices may result in that being the approach by one office, and refused by another", how true.
I've delt with 3 CASA office's on the East Coast and they all seem to "interpret" the rules differently. I've also found that within the same office's each FOI interprets the rules differently, here's an example. The company I worked for had a fuel policy for one of their turbine aircraft. This policy had been in place for years and was the same policy used by two regional airlines operating the same type of aircraft. CASA assigned a different FOI (from the same CASA office to the company and one of the first things he wanted changed was the fuel policy. Now this FOI was not endorsed on the aircraft type and the biggest aircraft he had flown before joining CASA was a PA31.
Mate spot on re CASA ,"lack of standards between CASA offices may result in that being the approach by one office, and refused by another", how true.
I've delt with 3 CASA office's on the East Coast and they all seem to "interpret" the rules differently. I've also found that within the same office's each FOI interprets the rules differently, here's an example. The company I worked for had a fuel policy for one of their turbine aircraft. This policy had been in place for years and was the same policy used by two regional airlines operating the same type of aircraft. CASA assigned a different FOI (from the same CASA office to the company and one of the first things he wanted changed was the fuel policy. Now this FOI was not endorsed on the aircraft type and the biggest aircraft he had flown before joining CASA was a PA31.
Lusimtingting. Well, I'll be darned. Someone told me Sluggo was there too.
bentandtwister. I know one CASA office who, sensibly, "authorised" about 80 ALA's for the purpose of conducting very remote area RPT operations, whilst another CASA office refused a similar authorisation to conduct remote area RPT/Mail Services and indeed, tried to ground every operator for conducting similar essential remote area services, eventually causing mayhem.
About the only correct assumption by many CASA officers is that "Australian skies will not be safe until every aircraft is grounded."
bentandtwister. I know one CASA office who, sensibly, "authorised" about 80 ALA's for the purpose of conducting very remote area RPT operations, whilst another CASA office refused a similar authorisation to conduct remote area RPT/Mail Services and indeed, tried to ground every operator for conducting similar essential remote area services, eventually causing mayhem.
About the only correct assumption by many CASA officers is that "Australian skies will not be safe until every aircraft is grounded."
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Its more an ass covering thing by CASA, I have had both approvals as “Acting CP” and then as the “CP” in oz.
If you operate in a remote region RPT or there is some kind of “Touring” involved then CASA want’s to know who the buck stops with when the fan and faeces meet.
If the CP is out of tour or absent for whatever reason then in an RPT scenario there needs to be an approved person at the helm.
Some operators are top notch and provide more than adequate contingency plans. Others are penny pinching clowns that cant see the forest for the trees.
In Australia some organisations think that they can provide a grade a service on the smell of an oily rag.
When really in comparison the services provided are cheep on a global scale, if Big Business want x people or y cargo moved from A to B they usually don’t give a rats how much it costs, they just want it done.
If it cost twice as much they would still do it, and operations would be profitable where affording the best is second nature. Instead in OZ there are too many players for to small a market both operators and pilots.
With too many of each pilots and operators trying to cut each others throats for a small piece of pie.
If you operate in a remote region RPT or there is some kind of “Touring” involved then CASA want’s to know who the buck stops with when the fan and faeces meet.
If the CP is out of tour or absent for whatever reason then in an RPT scenario there needs to be an approved person at the helm.
Some operators are top notch and provide more than adequate contingency plans. Others are penny pinching clowns that cant see the forest for the trees.
In Australia some organisations think that they can provide a grade a service on the smell of an oily rag.
When really in comparison the services provided are cheep on a global scale, if Big Business want x people or y cargo moved from A to B they usually don’t give a rats how much it costs, they just want it done.
If it cost twice as much they would still do it, and operations would be profitable where affording the best is second nature. Instead in OZ there are too many players for to small a market both operators and pilots.
With too many of each pilots and operators trying to cut each others throats for a small piece of pie.
