View Poll Results: What will you vote?
Yes
9
15.79%
No
48
84.21%
Voters: 57. This poll is closed
VB's new EBA
tightcannon:
Interesting that you did not apply to Qantas due 89ers advice,
If you were really informed you would know that Qantas was not part of 89 and we have quite a few 89ers with us! :rolleyes
If you wanted shorthaul and refuse to fly the 737 due to some of it's Captains being from Australian/TAA from 89 then there is the 767!
On the relative merits of longhaul/shorthaul it is horses for courses and a change is as good as a holiday! [after the last 6 years on the 400 I am training on the 737 for a change!]
Not endorsed on 800 yet but there is some speed restrictions on the use of speedbrake etc. They are from BOEING therefore affect
Virgin as well as any other 800 operator.
:
Interesting that you did not apply to Qantas due 89ers advice,
If you were really informed you would know that Qantas was not part of 89 and we have quite a few 89ers with us! :rolleyes
If you wanted shorthaul and refuse to fly the 737 due to some of it's Captains being from Australian/TAA from 89 then there is the 767!
On the relative merits of longhaul/shorthaul it is horses for courses and a change is as good as a holiday! [after the last 6 years on the 400 I am training on the 737 for a change!]
Not endorsed on 800 yet but there is some speed restrictions on the use of speedbrake etc. They are from BOEING therefore affect
Virgin as well as any other 800 operator.
:
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Home Brew,
I agree with all that you have to say.
However there is no denying that the AFAP has done serious damage to it's credibility by recommending at pilot forums that pilots should accept the EBA while full well knowing that it is a poor document in all respects as well as being against the general wishes of the majority.
One has to ask why they have done this ??
If this EBA is voted in there will be absolutely nothing left in the future to bargain with as everything would have been given up this time around. And for what ?, 3 % !
The time is now to make the votes count by letting VB management and the AFAP know, NOT HAPPY JAN !
I agree with all that you have to say.
However there is no denying that the AFAP has done serious damage to it's credibility by recommending at pilot forums that pilots should accept the EBA while full well knowing that it is a poor document in all respects as well as being against the general wishes of the majority.
One has to ask why they have done this ??
If this EBA is voted in there will be absolutely nothing left in the future to bargain with as everything would have been given up this time around. And for what ?, 3 % !
The time is now to make the votes count by letting VB management and the AFAP know, NOT HAPPY JAN !
Last edited by Interceptor; 12th Sep 2002 at 09:42.
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Hey Tankengine well i stand corrected
i always thought that qantas bought a Tatas. As for the advice go read that thread ,all that stuff happened, I have seen what it did to people and thier families. just remember that your wages now are the result of bargaining power and if you give that power away mate you never get it back. (well its only taken ford and holden 30 years to produce super cars again after the powers that be told them to stop)
As to the 737 try this thread
http://home.primus.com.au/qf737/
and
http://www.b737.org.uk/
you will find good stuff there.
I am aware of the 300kt sb limit but heard a rumour that Qantas are limiting to 300kt overall not just s - brake?????
im not talking about the 270 de-ice limit either
i always thought that qantas bought a Tatas. As for the advice go read that thread ,all that stuff happened, I have seen what it did to people and thier families. just remember that your wages now are the result of bargaining power and if you give that power away mate you never get it back. (well its only taken ford and holden 30 years to produce super cars again after the powers that be told them to stop)
As to the 737 try this thread
http://home.primus.com.au/qf737/
and
http://www.b737.org.uk/
you will find good stuff there.
I am aware of the 300kt sb limit but heard a rumour that Qantas are limiting to 300kt overall not just s - brake?????
im not talking about the 270 de-ice limit either
Grandpa Aerotart
Well offchocks I'm very happy for you
I personally believe that any aircraft with more than 2500nm range with alternate and IFR reserves is badly designed
I remember going Hyderabad - Singapore in the Falcon thinking "if this is what long haul is like you can shove it"
A good mate flys a Canadair Global Express out of HK. When he told me about the flying ANC-CLK and arriving with 4+ hours in the tanks I was almost ill....mind you the crew rest in the Global was as flash as M Jackson
Anyway back to the thread
Chuck.
I personally believe that any aircraft with more than 2500nm range with alternate and IFR reserves is badly designed
I remember going Hyderabad - Singapore in the Falcon thinking "if this is what long haul is like you can shove it"
A good mate flys a Canadair Global Express out of HK. When he told me about the flying ANC-CLK and arriving with 4+ hours in the tanks I was almost ill....mind you the crew rest in the Global was as flash as M Jackson
Anyway back to the thread
Chuck.
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The AFAP is past it's use-by date.
Sorry to go off topic, but I feel I had to post a reply, considering my pilot group is going through an EBA at the moment....
A few weeks ago, we had meetings with the AFAP that presented a package on offer. Our pilot council (well, the members of same that had any balls) were against said offer, where a certain AFAP "big gun" suggested that this is as good as it gets. The membership were almost universally disgusted with both the offer and the assertions of the AFAP.
The key issues were lifestyle. Herein lies an uncanny parallel with DJ pilots, it seems.
Fortunately, those on our Pilot Council with balls saw fit to go back to the negotiating table with the aim of sorting this out...
Well, things didn't go so well, and we ended up with a stop-work meeting.
Once again, we stood almost unanimous with regard to those lifestyle issues that you too are faced with.
Those people went back to the Company again, and it appears a satisfactory solution may be forthcoming.
The point I am making is threefold:
1. The AFAP is gun-shy (which I have alluded to in other threads) and does not appear to have their customers' interests (YOU) at heart;
2. The key to successful negotiations is having strong representatives on your pilot council;
3. You guys (as we are) are paying a premium for union representation. Unions are a service industry. If they are not meeting your SERVICE expectations - find another.
However there is no denying that the AFAP has done damage to it's credibility by recommending at pilot forums that pilots should accept the EBA while full well knowing that it is a poor document in all respects.
The key issues were lifestyle. Herein lies an uncanny parallel with DJ pilots, it seems.
Fortunately, those on our Pilot Council with balls saw fit to go back to the negotiating table with the aim of sorting this out...
Well, things didn't go so well, and we ended up with a stop-work meeting.
Once again, we stood almost unanimous with regard to those lifestyle issues that you too are faced with.
Those people went back to the Company again, and it appears a satisfactory solution may be forthcoming.
The point I am making is threefold:
1. The AFAP is gun-shy (which I have alluded to in other threads) and does not appear to have their customers' interests (YOU) at heart;
2. The key to successful negotiations is having strong representatives on your pilot council;
3. You guys (as we are) are paying a premium for union representation. Unions are a service industry. If they are not meeting your SERVICE expectations - find another.
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what premium
I pay 4 % to my union to represent my interests.
Maybe you should form your own union and stop buying bad help from the one you mention here.
Money well spent i think.
:o
Maybe you should form your own union and stop buying bad help from the one you mention here.
Money well spent i think.
:o
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Not sure of the details but have just heard that the EBA has been withdrawn by the company/AFAP on finally realising and acknowledging of the immense dissastisfaction with the document amongst the VB pilots.
Interesting story Interceptor. Parts of the management are sounding more "asian" everyday, as it would be a big "loss of Face" to have the eba document soundly rejected. As a lot of us have worked on contracts before, we all read the bottom line, and "good intentions and best endevours" don't come into play!!
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Very true Home Brew.
Talk about jumping off a losing horse.
Whilst it now may appear that the concerns of the VB pilots will be addressed by rewording parts of the EBA, one cannot be distracted from the overall picture as to why the EBA was soundly rejected.
The two main issues which are the most important are:
1. Quality of lifestyle through decent rostering and time off.
2. Proper financial reward to reflect the true status of professional airline pilots.
Once again, it is important to stay focused on the important issues and not to be distracted by the "negotiation tactics" of management.
Lastly the AFAP still remains on notice to provide the service that they are being paid to do. And that is to negotiate the best possible deal in the best interests of it's members.
Unless they do this they will certainly have a doubtful long term future in Australian aviation.
Talk about jumping off a losing horse.
Whilst it now may appear that the concerns of the VB pilots will be addressed by rewording parts of the EBA, one cannot be distracted from the overall picture as to why the EBA was soundly rejected.
The two main issues which are the most important are:
1. Quality of lifestyle through decent rostering and time off.
2. Proper financial reward to reflect the true status of professional airline pilots.
Once again, it is important to stay focused on the important issues and not to be distracted by the "negotiation tactics" of management.
Lastly the AFAP still remains on notice to provide the service that they are being paid to do. And that is to negotiate the best possible deal in the best interests of it's members.
Unless they do this they will certainly have a doubtful long term future in Australian aviation.
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I wish it were that simple homebrew. Unfortunately the main sticking point, (the money,or lack of it) isn't going to be addressed. This was set by the board and they are just going to tidy up the wording on a few things. Will hardly be a dramatic change. I would suggest they dont waste there time rewording, as it will not change what the pilot group think of this agreement. May as well count up the votes then start afresh
