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USAF C17 Close Call with Terrain YBCS - No ATC Available

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USAF C17 Close Call with Terrain YBCS - No ATC Available

Old 26th Sep 2023, 06:49
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
For the sake of our defence capability, I'm very relieved to hear that.

Duck Pilot: What is the basis for your assertion that it is "totally incorrect" to say that, in 2023, the RAAF flies low and close to terrain occasionally, even when itís dark.
Thatís not exactly what I stated.

Without getting into a debate, I know that the Airforce take risk mitigation very seriously and certainly donít take short cuts when it comes to safety.

Obviously certain operational tasks are assessed differently with regards to risk, e.g. peacetime activities in comparison to a conflict situation.
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Old 26th Sep 2023, 07:00
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We won't get into a debate because there is no debate. It is exactly what you stated.

I said: "You know the RAAF flies low and close to terrain occasionally, right? Even when it's dark."

You said: "Totally incorrect in 2023, possibly was the norm years ago however it certainly doesn't happen today."

If what you meant to say that the norm in the RAAF years ago was to fly low and close to terrain in the dark, while taking short cuts on safety and not taking risk mitigation seriously, you'd be wrong on that, too.
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Old 26th Sep 2023, 07:41
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 43Inches
In any case if there was an incident it can join the civilian reports from the two major domestic airlines that went below safe altitude recently during arrival at Cairns. There is definitely a trend showing up around the airspace there and close calls with hills.
Those reports have nothing to do with the airspace. However, the presence of ATC was clearly a factor in avoiding a more serious incident.
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Old 26th Sep 2023, 07:54
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Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer
Those reports have nothing to do with the airspace. However, the presence of ATC was clearly a factor in avoiding a more serious incident.
I would lean to a poorly designed STAR that allowed a discontinuity where a critical altitude is inserted. Which then adds to the airspace procedure flaw input into the incidents.
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Old 26th Sep 2023, 08:46
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
We won't get into a debate because there is no debate. It is exactly what you stated.

I said: "You know the RAAF flies low and close to terrain occasionally, right? Even when it's dark."

You said: "Totally incorrect in 2023, possibly was the norm years ago however it certainly doesn't happen today."

If what you meant to say that the norm in the RAAF years ago was to fly low and close to terrain in the dark, while taking short cuts on safety and not taking risk mitigation seriously, you'd be wrong on that, too.
The ADF helicopter that most recently crashed into the ocean at night, may have been flying a mission close to it.
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Old 26th Sep 2023, 09:39
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Indeed. Sadly, there is no such thing as risk free flying activities, despite taking safety and risk mitigation seriously.
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Old 26th Sep 2023, 09:46
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You can take off down the valley without a GPWS
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Old 26th Sep 2023, 11:54
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Dicussion of RAAF operations irrelevant.

This was a USAF C17 long range Transport flight to HNL, not a tactical mission.There is an image of the aircraft at 1500FT approx 1NM west of Mt Yarrabah.

All the other armchair commentary becomes immediately moot .
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Old 26th Sep 2023, 22:47
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…says an armchair commentator.
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Old 26th Sep 2023, 23:25
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
Ösays an armchair commentator.
!!!!!
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Old 26th Sep 2023, 23:36
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Originally Posted by LTBC
You can take off down the valley without a GPWS
You can with one too, on the now defunct RNP departure that was canned for a single noise complaint.
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Old 26th Sep 2023, 23:51
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Feetup

By image do you mean radar image / paint?
And night presumably (as opposed to IMC)?
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Old 27th Sep 2023, 01:31
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Originally Posted by compressor stall
Feetup

By image do you mean radar image / paint?
And night presumably (as opposed to IMC)?
There is an image doing the rounds, I assume it is some kind of radar screen grab, showing the aircraft at 1500FT at 270GS with a Controller alerted Below Minimum Safe Altitude Warning in the vicinity of Mt Yarrabah. As there was apparently no ATC service, one assumes the alert went unactioned?
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Old 27th Sep 2023, 03:50
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Does anyone have a date of this close call?
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Old 27th Sep 2023, 05:36
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Originally Posted by FeetUp
There is an image doing the rounds, I assume it is some kind of radar screen grab, showing the aircraft at 1500FT at 270GS with a Controller alerted Below Minimum Safe Altitude Warning in the vicinity of Mt Yarrabah.
If that’s the case then they would’ve departed off R15 and made a very lazy left hand turn and come too close to the terrain there at 1500’ in an MSA sector of 6500’. Like I said before impossible to miss the multiple warnings on the basic DAP charts.
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Old 27th Sep 2023, 05:52
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Originally Posted by dr dre
Like I said before impossible to miss the multiple warnings on the basic DAP charts.
No kidding. If it reported as true (and not a NVMC dep with toys we donít get to play with) then yes the crew clearly had a moment, but this thread is not about them - although Iím sure there are some internal learnings that will come out within their system.

But in a normal first world country there would be ATC guidance / alerts that would have prevented this from escalating.

Where was the controller?

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Old 27th Sep 2023, 06:03
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You should be able to pull archived tapes from LiveATC if you know a date.

I recall seeing a C17 parked with a Omni 767 about 10 days ago.
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Old 27th Sep 2023, 06:19
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Iíve overlaid the screen grab onto the 1:250k topo and reckon they had 300í of air under them.
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Old 27th Sep 2023, 06:22
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Originally Posted by compressor stall
Iíve overlaid the screen grab onto the 1:250k topo and reckon they had 300í of air under them.
What date and time? Are you able to post said screen grab?
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Old 27th Sep 2023, 06:29
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Not mine to promķlgateÖ
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