QF SH log of claims
Don't let this drag on and don't accept mediocrity - for the benefit of ALL.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere on the Australian Coast
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I’d want to see:
- payment for reserve,
- min daily credit with elapsed time away credit, so I’m not sitting in Darwin on a 3 day trip with a redeye finish for 9 hours pay, or getting paid 4 hrs less than a 330 crew on a Bali,
- full credits when paxing - I’m at work I should be paid full $$. If the company has me paxing because they can’t build efficient patterns that’s their problem,
- some form of pay guarantee when flying is cancelled, especially day of ops, but without the ability for the company to infringe X days,
- some form of pay protection for when flying is lost next day because of delays,
- some form of duty pay credit on single day flying,
- additional $$ payment if agreeing to work on a day off. OL11 doesn’t cut it any more. Not worth it.
- some COMMITMENT (not the current aspirational statement) to more efficient rosters (see MDC above) so you’re not working 18 days out of 28. This would increase the number of AV days for all so top of the PSN doesn’t get smashed on their AV days because they’re the only crew that have any.
Fix those and you can probably just about leave the hourly rate where it is because the pay bump and lifestyle improvements from those measures would be significant.
Probably dreaming, but that’s about what I told the union in my survey.
- payment for reserve,
- min daily credit with elapsed time away credit, so I’m not sitting in Darwin on a 3 day trip with a redeye finish for 9 hours pay, or getting paid 4 hrs less than a 330 crew on a Bali,
- full credits when paxing - I’m at work I should be paid full $$. If the company has me paxing because they can’t build efficient patterns that’s their problem,
- some form of pay guarantee when flying is cancelled, especially day of ops, but without the ability for the company to infringe X days,
- some form of pay protection for when flying is lost next day because of delays,
- some form of duty pay credit on single day flying,
- additional $$ payment if agreeing to work on a day off. OL11 doesn’t cut it any more. Not worth it.
- some COMMITMENT (not the current aspirational statement) to more efficient rosters (see MDC above) so you’re not working 18 days out of 28. This would increase the number of AV days for all so top of the PSN doesn’t get smashed on their AV days because they’re the only crew that have any.
Fix those and you can probably just about leave the hourly rate where it is because the pay bump and lifestyle improvements from those measures would be significant.
Probably dreaming, but that’s about what I told the union in my survey.
The following 7 users liked this post by DirectAnywhere:
The 2007 EA expired in August 2012 and it’s replacement wasn’t finalised until 30 months later.
The 2002 EA expired in August 2005 and it’s replacement wasn’t finalised for at least 18 months.
Not saying that’s how it should be but history tells us contract negotiations aren’t a quick thing.
I’d want to see:
- payment for reserve,
- min daily credit with elapsed time away credit, so I’m not sitting in Darwin on a 3 day trip with a redeye finish for 9 hours pay, or getting paid 4 hrs less than a 330 crew on a Bali,
- full credits when paxing - I’m at work I should be paid full $$. If the company has me paxing because they can’t build efficient patterns that’s their problem,
- some form of pay guarantee when flying is cancelled, especially day of ops, but without the ability for the company to infringe X days,
- some form of pay protection for when flying is lost next day because of delays,
- some form of duty pay credit on single day flying,
- additional $$ payment if agreeing to work on a day off. OL11 doesn’t cut it any more. Not worth it.
- some COMMITMENT (not the current aspirational statement) to more efficient rosters (see MDC above) so you’re not working 18 days out of 28. This would increase the number of AV days for all so top of the PSN doesn’t get smashed on their AV days because they’re the only crew that have any.
Fix those and you can probably just about leave the hourly rate where it is because the pay bump and lifestyle improvements from those measures would be significant.
Probably dreaming, but that’s about what I told the union in my survey.
- payment for reserve,
- min daily credit with elapsed time away credit, so I’m not sitting in Darwin on a 3 day trip with a redeye finish for 9 hours pay, or getting paid 4 hrs less than a 330 crew on a Bali,
- full credits when paxing - I’m at work I should be paid full $$. If the company has me paxing because they can’t build efficient patterns that’s their problem,
- some form of pay guarantee when flying is cancelled, especially day of ops, but without the ability for the company to infringe X days,
- some form of pay protection for when flying is lost next day because of delays,
- some form of duty pay credit on single day flying,
- additional $$ payment if agreeing to work on a day off. OL11 doesn’t cut it any more. Not worth it.
- some COMMITMENT (not the current aspirational statement) to more efficient rosters (see MDC above) so you’re not working 18 days out of 28. This would increase the number of AV days for all so top of the PSN doesn’t get smashed on their AV days because they’re the only crew that have any.
Fix those and you can probably just about leave the hourly rate where it is because the pay bump and lifestyle improvements from those measures would be significant.
Probably dreaming, but that’s about what I told the union in my survey.
Yep, 100%!
Youve pretty much listed my own ‘points that need fixing’ in the SHEA. Anecdotally only, but I’m yet to hear anyone not say that the above aren’t well overdue for correction.
No more mincing around the edge solutions like RDC, etc. Fix them and fix them properly.
The following 2 users liked this post by ExtraShot:
The 2015 EA expired in August 2018 and it’s replacement didn’t come into effect for 18 months.
The 2007 EA expired in August 2012 and it’s replacement wasn’t finalised until 30 months later.
The 2002 EA expired in August 2005 and it’s replacement wasn’t finalised for at least 18 months.
The 2007 EA expired in August 2012 and it’s replacement wasn’t finalised until 30 months later.
The 2002 EA expired in August 2005 and it’s replacement wasn’t finalised for at least 18 months.
Two parties arrive at the negotiation table:
- Party one holds a pre-determined Log of Offers
- Party two holds a pre-determined Log of Claims
- Lock the doors and nobody leaves until an 'Agreement in Principle' is drafted - if either party is not in a position to make decisions based on what is required, then you very well have the wrong people at the table.
- Unlock the door and call the next person in - now lock the door behind them.
- Rinse and Repeat until the red moon rises - somewhere in the room someone will get serious.
or else what? Whinge again about no scope clause and your 20 year upgrade date?
You know the drill:
vote yes 2nd time round
take the little brown paper bag
get 3% wow
vote up another b scale
keep doing reserves unpaid
tell yourself your duty credit is not that bad
thank aipa crew for doing their very best
Yawn…..
You know the drill:
vote yes 2nd time round
take the little brown paper bag
get 3% wow
vote up another b scale
keep doing reserves unpaid
tell yourself your duty credit is not that bad
thank aipa crew for doing their very best
Yawn…..
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Whilst I'm not now, and never have been a shorthaul pilot, there is one item that, from my experience in assessing shorthaul fatigue reports, must be included in any new Agreement.
There must be an award based credit or mechanism that doesn't financially penalise and thus discourage a pilot from reporting "unfit for duty due fatigue". It would be in the best interest of both the pilot and the/any company to ensure that pilots aren't discouraged from reporting fatigued. We got close to this in about 2015 or 16 but it was rejected (apparently by someone above the CP) at the last minute.
There must be an award based credit or mechanism that doesn't financially penalise and thus discourage a pilot from reporting "unfit for duty due fatigue". It would be in the best interest of both the pilot and the/any company to ensure that pilots aren't discouraged from reporting fatigued. We got close to this in about 2015 or 16 but it was rejected (apparently by someone above the CP) at the last minute.
Last edited by C441; 5th Sep 2023 at 07:42.
The following 3 users liked this post by C441:
Whilst I'm not now, and never have been a shorthaul pilot, there is one item that, from my experience in assessing shorthaul fatigue reports, must be included in any new Agreement.
There must be an award based credit or mechanism that doesn't financially penalise and thus discourage a pilot from reporting "unfit for duty due fatigue". It would be in the best interest of both the pilot and the/any company to ensure that pilots aren't discouraged from reporting fatigued. We got close to this in about 2015 or 16 but it was rejected (apparently by someone above the CP) at the last minute.
There must be an award based credit or mechanism that doesn't financially penalise and thus discourage a pilot from reporting "unfit for duty due fatigue". It would be in the best interest of both the pilot and the/any company to ensure that pilots aren't discouraged from reporting fatigued. We got close to this in about 2015 or 16 but it was rejected (apparently by someone above the CP) at the last minute.
Reliance on an hourly flight payment and operating above MGH plus allowances won't.
Metaphor - a figure of speech that, for rhetorical effect, directly refers to one thing by mentioning another.
You’re either stirring the pot, or thick as molasses.
You’re either stirring the pot, or thick as molasses.
The following 4 users liked this post by ScepticalOptomist:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere on the Australian Coast
Posts: 1,055
Likes: 0
Received 50 Likes
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16 Posts
or else what? Whinge again about no scope clause and your 20 year upgrade date?
You know the drill:
vote yes 2nd time round
take the little brown paper bag
get 3% wow
vote up another b scale
keep doing reserves unpaid
tell yourself your duty credit is not that bad
thank aipa crew for doing their very best
Yawn…..
You know the drill:
vote yes 2nd time round
take the little brown paper bag
get 3% wow
vote up another b scale
keep doing reserves unpaid
tell yourself your duty credit is not that bad
thank aipa crew for doing their very best
Yawn…..
Someone asked what the AIPA negotiators’ log of claims would be. I don’t have that info.
I attempted to provide the forum with a list of some things that, from my experience, I would like to see improved. They seem to be pretty common gripes amongst SH crew.
If the offer doesn’t meet my expectations, I’ll vote no.
If a majority of my colleagues vote yes, I’ll be bound to accept the outcome and will continue to use the provisions within the amended document to achieve what I consider an acceptable lifestyle and financial outcome.
Simple really.
Last edited by DirectAnywhere; 6th Sep 2023 at 06:36.
The following 5 users liked this post by DirectAnywhere:
Under the proposed "same job same pay" bill soon to be introduced, QF mainline pay was rumoured to drop to the lowest in the Qantas group, not sure which in the group, maybe EFA.
Maybe not since Alan is gone now, but Albo was going to make it happen for him.
Maybe not since Alan is gone now, but Albo was going to make it happen for him.
Nice wind up though.
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So in theory, the NWK A320 guys should get paid roughly the same as the 737 guys?
The following 2 users liked this post by VHOED191006:
I don’t think it’ll affect pilots much, but may affect cabin crew as you can have multiple EAs and casual employees working on the same flight.
I think it means if you have two pilots working in the same job for the same company (ie both A320 Captains for the same entity for instance) and one happens to be a lower paid contractor then their pay should be level with the full time employee.
I don’t think it’ll affect pilots much, but may affect cabin crew as you can have multiple EAs and casual employees working on the same flight.
I don’t think it’ll affect pilots much, but may affect cabin crew as you can have multiple EAs and casual employees working on the same flight.
Not that it makes a difference in this context, but I thought they still operated under thier own AOC but with VH aircraft?
