Truck drivers earning $150 K - Good for them.
No auto pilot in trucks (yet)
No FA bringing coffee or snacks
Break down and wait hours for tech in 45 degree heat
No GA at 38,000 feet, plenty of "GA" all around you on the roads with no ATC keeping you apart
Triple + the hours for the same pay
No work life balance
Sleep in the box
No roos at 38,000 feet
No FO to help out
Pre flight walk around gets you dirty
Blue singlet uniform
Pie and coke for lunch
No weighbridges at 38,000 feet, nor airway patrol
One benefit is that you can cop a gobby at most truck stops
No FA bringing coffee or snacks
Break down and wait hours for tech in 45 degree heat
No GA at 38,000 feet, plenty of "GA" all around you on the roads with no ATC keeping you apart
Triple + the hours for the same pay
No work life balance
Sleep in the box
No roos at 38,000 feet
No FO to help out
Pre flight walk around gets you dirty
Blue singlet uniform
Pie and coke for lunch
No weighbridges at 38,000 feet, nor airway patrol
One benefit is that you can cop a gobby at most truck stops
Horses for courses. Ex airline guy here who started a truck driving job not long ago. $120K to drive a brand new IVECO 4 days a week. I get every Fri,Sat and Sun off. One pick up and one drop off per day starting at 9:30am. I'm on my own and my boss INSISTS on me taking my time and as many breaks as I deem necessary. I couldn't be happier!
The fact you guys used to argue whether a trained medical professional was similar to being an airline pilot, and now it’s a truck driver says an awful lot!!! 
Thread Starter
I don’t think the point here was to literally compare pilots to truck drivers. The point is, almost every other industry has woken up to the fact that supply and demand necessarily drives pay and conditions. Airlines are struggling to let go of the dogma that has seen the pay and conditions plummet over the last 20-30 years.
So the day has arrived that due to a severe shortage of truck drivers, companies are offering up to $150,000 pa for experienced drivers. No sims, no medical, no CVR, DFDR and no security screening.
So aviation managements are not reading the room. Every company I know is short of pilots. Now companies really will have to compete with each other to attract “talent”.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/20...lary/101409144
This is the company they refer to…https://www.facebook.com/PepperLivestockTransport/
So aviation managements are not reading the room. Every company I know is short of pilots. Now companies really will have to compete with each other to attract “talent”.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/20...lary/101409144
This is the company they refer to…https://www.facebook.com/PepperLivestockTransport/
The stuff in the trucks is paying big $$$ right now.
Your average punter on a plane doesn’t want to pay anything any more.
You are ‘worth’ the income you generate. The way the industry is now, that’s peanuts.
Thread Starter
You are ‘worth’ the income you generate. The way the industry is now, that’s peanuts.
What an individual is paid is related to how hard it is to replace that individual, it starts and ends there.
Ultimately, Supply and Demand determines your worth. The demand for the service of qualified road train drivers is high. The barriers to entry, the difficulty in attracting the required number, or quality, of applicants determines the supply. As everyone knows You can’t just walk off the street and get a freshly minted road train licence without experience.
Surgeons= high barriers to entry, highly skilled high performing, highly educated individuals required. Limited numbers qualified. Can command a high price.
McDonalds burger flipper= can walk off the street and be fully trained in two weeks, little education required… etc etc.
You can manipulate the barriers to entry or other factors a little to change the outcomes, as we see with pilots in the US vs pilots elsewhere right now, strong unions vs weak ones… but the simpler laws of economics are relatively immutable.
One of those ways to manipulate those laws is, by various means, lowering your own worth. So, what never ceases to amaze me, is unlike other industries, how quickly Pilots will denigrate themselves, in public forums no less!. Icarus literally put in the title of the thread ‘good for them’, ie long haul truckies driving road trains deserve every cent. Yet every dill with an opinion has to come here and give their $0.02 on how truckies are so much more hard done by, how dare we compare ourselves, and effectively that pilots are nothing more than… overpaid bus drivers… who barely deserve an inflight meal.
Who needed Bob Hawke to denigrate us when we have a ready supply of idiots who will happily do it themselves?
Biggus Dickus
GA is a good example where supply and demand just leads to business closures, not higher salaries. Aviation is generally on tight budgets, it gets too much the company just shuts its doors rather than pay exorbitant prices for labor.
That being said, you are paid what you and your colleagues negotiate in Australia. Most airlines operate to EBAs that are put out to vote by the workforce and you either accept or not. If you don't you have to justify your position and strike or leave. The Bosses know exactly what they want to pay you, they are not blind or indifferent to the shortage of skilled labor here, but they are not going to cave in and up yearly salaries that impose cost burdens into the future. As I said earlier about the train drivers in NSW, they could just resign en masse and no one could do anything and it would bring absolute chaos for a long time forcing the gov to negotiate. Are you willing to go that far? Or is the job and pay enough that you don't care? It's easy to say that YOU feel YOU should be paid more/better, but does that apply to the majority at your workforce, and if you are the odd one out, it's probably time to move on rather than but heads. If everyone at the workplace feels the same way and wants better conditions, for gods sake get together, join or form a union and negotiate. If its that bad, all put in a joint resignation 4 weeks hence that everyone will resign by x date if negotiation doesn't happen. Regardless of strike rules and PIA etc, no one can force you to remain employed somewhere you don't want to be.
That being said, you are paid what you and your colleagues negotiate in Australia. Most airlines operate to EBAs that are put out to vote by the workforce and you either accept or not. If you don't you have to justify your position and strike or leave. The Bosses know exactly what they want to pay you, they are not blind or indifferent to the shortage of skilled labor here, but they are not going to cave in and up yearly salaries that impose cost burdens into the future. As I said earlier about the train drivers in NSW, they could just resign en masse and no one could do anything and it would bring absolute chaos for a long time forcing the gov to negotiate. Are you willing to go that far? Or is the job and pay enough that you don't care? It's easy to say that YOU feel YOU should be paid more/better, but does that apply to the majority at your workforce, and if you are the odd one out, it's probably time to move on rather than but heads. If everyone at the workplace feels the same way and wants better conditions, for gods sake get together, join or form a union and negotiate. If its that bad, all put in a joint resignation 4 weeks hence that everyone will resign by x date if negotiation doesn't happen. Regardless of strike rules and PIA etc, no one can force you to remain employed somewhere you don't want to be.
Thread Starter
As everyone knows You can’t just walk off the street and get a freshly minted road train licence without experience.
https://www.ianwatsonsdrivingschool....ouble-mc-truck
You have to be on a Heavy (HR) or Medium (MR) licence for at least 1 years before you can get an articulated licence HC or MC, so no, you can't decide tomorrow you want to drive road trains. You have to do a course that provides a certificate of competency and then pass an on/off road driving test for the HC/MC licence. The hardest part in the reversing into bay tests I found, nailed it first time, but its not simple. And yeah, turn up without experience for a job where you are driving half a mil to a mils worth of rig let alone cargo value, you know the answer to that. Getting good drivers is the issue, not just getting anyone.
That being said you don't have to do anything with your licence for that 1 year before attempting the HC/MC course.
Some mates I've spoken to say they're on 25% less since admin, due to work practice changes, hence why comparing base salaries is irrelevant in airline work.
That being said you don't have to do anything with your licence for that 1 year before attempting the HC/MC course.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the VA pilots on about 17% less than pre administration?
Last edited by 43Inches; 24th Sep 2022 at 02:42.
I’m playing devils advocate here so please don’t shoot the messenger.
There has been a lot of talk about supply and demand here and the supply side of things is what is causing the increased salary for truck drivers.
I am just not seeing the supply side of things in the major airlines being an issue at the moment. QF mainline will never have an issue attracting suitably qualified pilots. In fact if the numbers are to be believed, when applications recently opened they received 1000s upon 1000s of people wanting to join. By all accounts, JQ isn’t having any issues with the number of people applying there.
And with Virgin, the redundant pilot list has provided VA with a long list of suitably qualified pilots to fill the void as expansion exploded post COVID. Now whilst that list may be close to exhausted, the most recent bid import shows those higher up are considering their options and again bidding. When the next rounds of commands come out - it will be interesting to see how many come from those still inactive. When Virgin recently advertised externally (again if the numbers were to be believed) they had a significant number of applicants. And from a VA perspective there might be a lot of people talking about leaving, but when push comes to shove the numbers leaving aren’t all that significant in the scheme of things. Until numbers leaving has a significant impact on the ongoing operation, then it’s unlikely the Company is going to be rushing to throw money at the problem.
Now things might be slightly different at the next tier operators. By all accounts there are definite crewing issues at NJS. Cobham is also having crewing issues, especially in regards to their government contract work. Rex allegedly lost 10% of Saab fleet pilots in one week about a month ago - but that hasn’t appeared to have materialised in any sort of significant cancelation rate on their turbo prop operations.
Seems to me that pilots are always waiting for the supply issues to try and drive up wages. If you aren’t being paid what you’re worth (and that’s very arguably the case at JQ and VA), then when it comes to EA negotiating time you need to be prepared to take action which may have a short term financial impact to yourself. Unfortunately from what I have seen - a cohesive pilot group doesn’t look particularly likely
There has been a lot of talk about supply and demand here and the supply side of things is what is causing the increased salary for truck drivers.
I am just not seeing the supply side of things in the major airlines being an issue at the moment. QF mainline will never have an issue attracting suitably qualified pilots. In fact if the numbers are to be believed, when applications recently opened they received 1000s upon 1000s of people wanting to join. By all accounts, JQ isn’t having any issues with the number of people applying there.
And with Virgin, the redundant pilot list has provided VA with a long list of suitably qualified pilots to fill the void as expansion exploded post COVID. Now whilst that list may be close to exhausted, the most recent bid import shows those higher up are considering their options and again bidding. When the next rounds of commands come out - it will be interesting to see how many come from those still inactive. When Virgin recently advertised externally (again if the numbers were to be believed) they had a significant number of applicants. And from a VA perspective there might be a lot of people talking about leaving, but when push comes to shove the numbers leaving aren’t all that significant in the scheme of things. Until numbers leaving has a significant impact on the ongoing operation, then it’s unlikely the Company is going to be rushing to throw money at the problem.
Now things might be slightly different at the next tier operators. By all accounts there are definite crewing issues at NJS. Cobham is also having crewing issues, especially in regards to their government contract work. Rex allegedly lost 10% of Saab fleet pilots in one week about a month ago - but that hasn’t appeared to have materialised in any sort of significant cancelation rate on their turbo prop operations.
Seems to me that pilots are always waiting for the supply issues to try and drive up wages. If you aren’t being paid what you’re worth (and that’s very arguably the case at JQ and VA), then when it comes to EA negotiating time you need to be prepared to take action which may have a short term financial impact to yourself. Unfortunately from what I have seen - a cohesive pilot group doesn’t look particularly likely
The supply issues are driving up wages in the rung under the airlines.
I think the turboprop operators are offering more than they normally would to try and encourage guys & girls to hang around a bit longer
I think the turboprop operators are offering more than they normally would to try and encourage guys & girls to hang around a bit longer
Sorry, but which operators are suffering this shortage of pilots? As always the Jet operators have no lack of applicants meaning they don't have to consider raising wages.
More retention issues vs trying to find people.
The only mob struggling to find bodies is the Bonz. But they are paying in breadcrumbs.
The only mob struggling to find bodies is the Bonz. But they are paying in breadcrumbs.
This thread is hilarious! Many of you say flying is far easier than truck driving….well I’ve done both and they both have their challenges. Truck driving can be both physically and mentally tiring but to suggest flying is easy by comparison, makes me wonder what’s going on in your heads when you’re flying.
Personally, I find flying European airspace (I’m a shorthaul captain) mentally tiring - the constant RT chatter and monitoring; ensuring contingency plans have been adequately considered; crew/passenger issues; 12hr duties with multiple early starts etc…
Ultimately in todays world, all jobs can be tough for different reasons, let’s not be so naive as to suggest our job is easy, when if you’re actually doing it properly, it is not.
Personally, I find flying European airspace (I’m a shorthaul captain) mentally tiring - the constant RT chatter and monitoring; ensuring contingency plans have been adequately considered; crew/passenger issues; 12hr duties with multiple early starts etc…
Ultimately in todays world, all jobs can be tough for different reasons, let’s not be so naive as to suggest our job is easy, when if you’re actually doing it properly, it is not.
I read that some traffic controllers in Sydney were on $180 000 a year, that's the guys on the road with STOP/GO signs not ATC. Work environment is a bit hard being outside on your feet in all weather, and the job is a bit monotonous but the pay is similar to airline F/O if anyone is interested.
Earning levels
Then I hear of footballers aged 24 and bringing in some $640,000 PA for kicking a bag of wind. And I can take five years to get a PPL a CPL and all the tickets and as and when I get a first time flying job might be lucky to bring in $45K.