Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

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Old 8th Aug 2022, 11:28
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by davidclarke View Post
Mate you’re cooked.

It’s taken Boeing over 10 years just to add new engines and a new wing to the 777 and it’s not even certified yet!
New aircraft development is at best 15 years from launch to EIS. Add a massive technological advance like you are talking about and you can double that development time.
The current air traffic control system would need to be completely overhauled and modernised requiring cooperation with every signgle country on earth. Will not happen in our lifetimes.
I think there is higher probably of a world war taking us back to the dark ages before that happens…
43inches usually dribbles alot of cooked garbage...

He should go to a Rio Tinto minesite, where they have litterally spent 100s of millions on Automation and bare witness to the constant communication issues and drop outs they have between the Perth control centres and site! Here he is thinking driverless cars exist, if you call Teslas rubbish autonomous driving system automated driving well you are delusional. Along with all the drop outs, the trucks have the most advanced obstacle detection system in the world, yet they have trucks stopping for spinifex tumble weeds blowing past and then cant recognise cows on the haul road and run them over at 60kph. Yea good luck with the automated passenger jets, give it a few smoking craters and noone will be getting on board. Seen enough haul trucks, drill rigs and trains do the most random cooked crap all thanks to some minor interference or anomoly. When I worked there control would always call us to go and shutdown and reset a truck or drill rig that they have lost comms with or have no control over. Good luck doing that with a pilotless airliner. Enough with the dribble and delusions!
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 11:41
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gnadenburg View Post
The mindset here goes a long ways in explaining the predicament of Aussie pilots. Proclamations of wild doomsday scenarios, almost a resignation of accepting downward pressure on wages. It’s a working class mindset.
That may have something to do with the fact that you don't even need a Year 12 education to be an airline pilot in this country.
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 11:49
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Haha, tesla not automated, good one, knowing a number of pilots that now own Teslas I think you may be a bit behind on the times. Only thing the driver has to do is touch the steering wheel periodically to tell it someones watching.

But seriously the new western Sydney train route is fully automated, many mine sites are automated, automated buses are in trial in Europe.

Since 2016 an automated copilot ai has been developed first trials coming in the next few years and rumored to be coming up as an option on some new turboprops and smaller jets in a few years time.

BTW cockpits can be altered by supplemental TC so dont have to go through the whole certification that occurs with a wing or other structural change. Pretty sure they could retrofit the tech into a 1980s turboprop if it was cost effective.

Last edited by 43Inches; 8th Aug 2022 at 12:42.
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 12:31
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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I agree, 43, you've got your hand on it mate.
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 12:54
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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So we are just going to ignore that Airbus is working on certifying the A350 single pilot in the cruise for Cathay by 2025, reducing the need for reserve crew on longer flights.
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 12:55
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like Qantas is getting some well paid baggage handlers. From the BBC:

"Australian airline Qantas has asked senior executives to work as baggage handlers for three months as it tries to tackle an acute labour shortage."

BBC News

What could possibly go wrong?
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 13:00
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
So we are just going to ignore that Airbus is working on certifying the A350 single pilot in the cruise for Cathay by 2025, reducing the need for reserve crew on longer flights.

LOL...
I wish I ran a stock brokerage firm, You would buy all my tech stocks at the peak of the bull market 😂😂😂 Silicon Valley loves pseudo tech suckers like you. Working with automation the last few years, its good to know what works and what goes wrong all the time. All these technologies exist, but are you a gullible uni grad that thinks the future is today? Oversight is a wonderful thing along with ignorance, I am only 30 and the oversight coming from tech pseudos on a daily basis is amazing. Enjoy your AI flown jet 😂, you know the people who design these things dont even know how to use a screw driver...
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 13:09
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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It is actually called project connect, seriously it was last years news. I supposed thats how far behind the real world Australians are. Guess what happens when one airline does it without crashing....and a hint it does not involve bringing back flight engineers. Cathay will be the launch guineapig, if it works and is accepted the suite is designed to retrofit to existing airbus a350 at first. Airbus has already highlighted that the mature package will aim for complete single pilot ops in the long run. Airbus has also been running surveys on the general public as to their acceptance of single pilot airliners, its currently sitting around 50/50. Why spend on surveys if you were not working on it (the cat being already out of the bag with Cathay).
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 13:14
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
It is actually called project connect, seriously it was last years news. I supposed thats how far behind the real world Australians are. Guess what happens when one airline does it without crashing....and a hint it does not involve bringing back flight engineers.

I am very aware of Project connect. It is not to reduce to single pilot ops. Only to remove S/O requirement, as the single pilot op is for cruise flight only. Not for critical stages of flight. To me single pilot ops means one pilot only at all stages of flight!
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 13:14
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Ahh I’ve worked it out…….I bet 43 never made I through flight school and now has a chip on his shoulder……
Am I right am I right??
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 13:20
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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So you are saying that if project connect works and there are no problems they wont expand on it. Be serious here, Airbus is working on it and the airlines want it. Project Connect is single piloting, just because its only in the cruise does not make it any less, this could be hours at a time, not just toilet breaks.

And in no way am I saying this to reduce T&C, unions should be working out how to fight poor systems and also how pay should be increased for the loss of a crew member. After all you effectively are solely responsible on a single pilot cockpit for what happens so pay should increase.
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 13:30
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
So you are saying that if project connect works and there are no problems they wont expand on it. Be serious here, Airbus is working on it and the airlines want it. Project Connect is single piloting, just because its only in the cruise does not make it any less, this could be hours at a time, not just toilet breaks.

And in no way am I saying this to reduce T&C, unions should be working out how to fight poor systems and also how pay should be increased.for the loss of a crew member.
Well goodluck getting it past the regulators. And it may lead to single pilot jets within a decade. But you seem so convinced on automation, as I said go and get a job at a minesite and then you tell me what $2 to $3 billion in R&D gets you. Rio spent over $1B just for its autohaul fleet. BHP wont even entertain the idea so they went and hired and trained 220 new loco drivers. Now your telling me Cathay is going to oneday spend more than that for autonomous jetliners... mate Cathay wont even exist in the next decade at this rate. And yea Cathay does need to look into single pilot ops as they dont even have enough pilots now! Maybe they could hire a fool like you! You certainly fit the right calibre of individual they will be looking for, but who will make the captains bunk when your replaced by project connect 😂.
its not happening period! This country takes 20years to chat about a train line then another decade to build it. We will not be getting the infrastructure to support it and I cant even see AJ spending billions to save 7 to 12% of costs!
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 13:45
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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No need, Im in the last 10 years of my aviation carreer and will be joining my seafaring mate in the south of France and Med aboard a big, probably automated private yatch. You guys can slug out the next 50 years vs HAL, I'll be down the back enjoying a good sleep.
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 15:20
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Zeta_Reticuli View Post
who will make the captains bunk when your replaced by project connect 😂.
Are Cathay still making SOs do that? Far out there is no way in hell I'd be doing that. Totally demeaning to the profession
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 22:40
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Even if technology can be developed for single pilot ops, how would it prevent hull losses such as MU5375, 4U9525, MI185, MS990 and possibly MH370?
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 22:46
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
So we are just going to ignore that Airbus is working on certifying the A350 single pilot in the cruise for Cathay by 2025, reducing the need for reserve crew on longer flights.
Who is Cathay?
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 22:56
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Buckshot View Post
Even if technology can be developed for single pilot ops, how would it prevent hull losses such as MU5375, 4U9525, MI185, MS990 and possibly MH370?
By reducing the chance of a suicidal pilot being alone at the controls by 50%, straight off the bat??
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 23:42
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mach E Avelli View Post
in time the USA will implode, just like every hegemony has done since the ancients.
.
Very true and sooner than most people realize. Fiat money ALWAYS returns to zero.
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 23:52
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Originally Posted by Lapon View Post
So what is the benefit of pilotless airliners exaclty? In the big scheme of the operation the pilots wages are insignificant anyway.
Im always interested to read this opinion, it pops up occasionally when discussing airline costs.

Do some simple maths. Multiply the average pilot wage by the number of pilots on the books and then project that out per annum for the life span of a pilotless aircraft.

Now name any airline that wouldn't rather see that money in the coffers instead of spent on labor that can be replaced even when controlled for the related infrastructure costs to support ground based control systems.
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Old 9th Aug 2022, 00:47
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Orange future View Post
Im always interested to read this opinion, it pops up occasionally when discussing airline costs.

Do some simple maths. Multiply the average pilot wage by the number of pilots on the books and then project that out per annum for the life span of a pilotless aircraft.

Now name any airline that wouldn't rather see that money in the coffers instead of spent on labor that can be replaced even when controlled for the related infrastructure costs to support ground based control systems.
You could do the same by carving out 20% of middle management
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