Virgin Australia might not return to long-haul flying
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: australia
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The market here is too small to have all these new startups. It’s probably more a matter of these rules just allowing anyone in, wasting time, creating jobs that don’t need to be created and so on. RexJet also foreign funded, complete disaster. Bonza chasing rainbows and lollipops. None of these airlines are needed unless they are purely here to burn cash.
AirAsia said Tiger was on drugs when it decided to start in 2007. Very true indeed.
Take out Tiger and alongside a leaner and resurgent Virgin, the market was actually setting itself up sustainably for once. You can’t say we lack competition, Virgin has now reduced fares, Jetstar runs the budget space, Qantas the high end...and so on. Then come along these time wasters.
AirAsia said Tiger was on drugs when it decided to start in 2007. Very true indeed.
Take out Tiger and alongside a leaner and resurgent Virgin, the market was actually setting itself up sustainably for once. You can’t say we lack competition, Virgin has now reduced fares, Jetstar runs the budget space, Qantas the high end...and so on. Then come along these time wasters.
- you choose to forget what Bain's all about....and it's not about playing "lets run an airline". The controlling entity is Bain, the lipstick on the pig for Bain is Virgin Oz MK2 (or whatever), let's see where things are in the years to come.Ms Jane is the puppetmaster of Virgin, Bain are the puppetmaster of Ms Jane, I sincerely hope the best for Virgin Oz but Bain just want money however achieved, it may be human nature in some to try to ignore reality....but it's still reality.
Virgin Blue was a time waster until AN went down and things changed.
Should any other time wasters offer employment - for whatever period of time - I'd say that's a good thing. You apparently think otherwise, at least that's the way your post reads.
Cheers
The difference is that QF can have a solid fleet of A350-1000ULRs because it's flying SYD-LHR, MEL-LHR, SYD-JFK, MEL-JFK, SYD-CDG, SYD-FRA etc etc. Maybe 12-18 of these A350-1000ULRs.
But how many similar jets would an individual competing carrier in London, New York, Paris or Frankfurt need? Only a handful, because there might only be two routes to Australia that needs them. And it's not efficient yo have tiny sub-fleets compared to the much bigger numbers Qantas is looking at.
They can, but again, only makes sense if they have a lot of aircraft to do those missions. The numbers favour Qantas because it can have a much larger fleet.
But how many similar jets would an individual competing carrier in London, New York, Paris or Frankfurt need? Only a handful, because there might only be two routes to Australia that needs them. And it's not efficient yo have tiny sub-fleets compared to the much bigger numbers Qantas is looking at.
They can, but again, only makes sense if they have a lot of aircraft to do those missions. The numbers favour Qantas because it can have a much larger fleet.
Resurgent Virgin?? - you choose to forget what Bain's all about....and it's not about playing "lets run an airline". The controlling entity is Bain, the lipstick on the pig for Bain is Virgin Oz MK2 (or whatever), let's see where things are in the years to come.
Ms Jane is the puppetmaster of Virgin, Bain are the puppetmaster of Ms Jane, I sincerely hope the best for Virgin Oz but Bain just want money however achieved, it may be human nature in some to try to ignore reality....but it's still reality.
Virgin Blue was a time waster until AN went down and things changed.
Should any other time wasters offer employment - for whatever period of time - I'd say that's a good thing. You apparently think otherwise, at least that's the way your post reads.
Cheers
- you choose to forget what Bain's all about....and it's not about playing "lets run an airline". The controlling entity is Bain, the lipstick on the pig for Bain is Virgin Oz MK2 (or whatever), let's see where things are in the years to come.Ms Jane is the puppetmaster of Virgin, Bain are the puppetmaster of Ms Jane, I sincerely hope the best for Virgin Oz but Bain just want money however achieved, it may be human nature in some to try to ignore reality....but it's still reality.
Virgin Blue was a time waster until AN went down and things changed.
Should any other time wasters offer employment - for whatever period of time - I'd say that's a good thing. You apparently think otherwise, at least that's the way your post reads.
Cheers
Unless some operator is going to be around for good, the career of Flight Crew in this country would be much more sustainable pathway, especially for the next generation if the market was just QF/VA/JQ/ZL Regional and Alliance/Network. All bases are covered, these players are not going anywhere, and people don’t have to stress if the place is going to collapse year after year.
They are trying to fill a gap that does not exist. Taking employees along for a ride also which only ends in tears at some point. Sure, these employees make the call to join, however the executive teams at all these carriers are out and about giving false hope, all very positive comments to the media around the market and all, meanwhile dive into the commercial numbers and it’s a disaster, as it was expected to be. It’s all very strange at Rex, majority of loads at 10-25%, lets grow the fleet and let the media know its all rainbows. I know one Captain there trying to exit at the moment, he knows what’s coming in the medium term. There isn’t room for a 4th or 5th airline. There is no gap they claim they are trying to fill, even if there was, is there even any management team capable of pulling it off? Unlikely.
Last edited by PoppaJo; 10th Dec 2021 at 20:29.
Apart from BA, no European airline fly's to Australia, they can't compete with all the hub airlines in between which have lower costs and offer stopovers.
Any time of the year will be off season somewhere with that country's airline offering seats at break even prices just to fill them. Even QF had such a hard time competing that they had to partner with EK.
The Middle East 2.5 can offer a 1 stop connection from most Australian capital cities to most cities in Europe at a decent price and many of the Asian airlines can do the same, often undercutting if they have a sale on.
Some SE Asian destinations might be worth looking at via a Darwin hub as many of these airlines have restructured due to COVID and dropped everything except Sydney. Brisbane to Phuket requires a connection somewhere and DRW might work.
Any time of the year will be off season somewhere with that country's airline offering seats at break even prices just to fill them. Even QF had such a hard time competing that they had to partner with EK.
The Middle East 2.5 can offer a 1 stop connection from most Australian capital cities to most cities in Europe at a decent price and many of the Asian airlines can do the same, often undercutting if they have a sale on.
Some SE Asian destinations might be worth looking at via a Darwin hub as many of these airlines have restructured due to COVID and dropped everything except Sydney. Brisbane to Phuket requires a connection somewhere and DRW might work.
Using your argument then QF should also not be able to compete with the ME3 but they do.
Due to historical ties and London being a major world city, there is sufficient demand for Australia to LHR for QF to make money on the route. Now try Perth - Athens or Brisbane - Paris, the numbers don't add up unless it's via a hub with other passengers connecting to the same destinations.
United Airlines are Star Alliance so hopefully codeshares with other members will open up for Virgin. They will be much better off as the alliance's Australian domestic network with limited international flights using the B737 rather than trying to compete with major world airlines on long haul routes.
I think a high chance we can expect UA in BNE with DL gone, should VA give up the HND slot. Can't see BNE-USA being a QF monopoly for much longer with Qld borders opening up further in 2022.
Otherwise if VA intends on holding onto the HND slot, a slim chance of limited 'long haul' flying based out of BNE with BNE-HND in partnership with NH and on flying on behalf of UA on the BNE-LAX and limited BNE-SFO. 4-5 aircraft all based in BNE.
Otherwise if VA intends on holding onto the HND slot, a slim chance of limited 'long haul' flying based out of BNE with BNE-HND in partnership with NH and on flying on behalf of UA on the BNE-LAX and limited BNE-SFO. 4-5 aircraft all based in BNE.
Wow QF could have some serious competition here on the AUS-USA routes if they expand beyond SYD and MEL.
Pretty much a guarantee VA will not be flying long haul at all as well.
Pretty much a guarantee VA will not be flying long haul at all as well.
