Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Network F100 busting minima, Paraburdoo

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Network F100 busting minima, Paraburdoo

Old 28th Nov 2021, 04:57
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Prison Island (WA)
Posts: 1,506
Network F100 busting minima, Paraburdoo

Flight below minimum altitude involving Fokker Aircraft F100, registration VH-NHV, at Paraburdoo Airport, Western Australia, on 22 November 2021
Transition Layer is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2021, 08:46
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Dunnunda
Posts: 487
Ouch.. 4 attempts.
Bula is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2021, 09:16
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Lower North Shore
Posts: 215
4 goes- makes you wonder if they had much gas to go anywhere else
Brakerider is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2021, 09:39
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Land of Oz
Posts: 242
Originally Posted by Brakerider View Post
4 goes- makes you wonder if they had much gas to go anywhere else
Probably not after 4 attempts, so rather than running out of gas, they do the old ‘flying it to the runway trick’. Virgin and Qantas got away with it at Mildura, but they were caught out by unforecast fog. Justifying it after 4 attempts (any holding as well?) will be a little harder. I have no idea about the RPT arrangement here, was it a mining run/charter? They mightn’t be too happy either.
No Idea Either is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2021, 10:14
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... It's Permanent!
Posts: 3,877
What is the purpose of the Minimum Descent Altitude?
Capt Fathom is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2021, 10:20
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Asia
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by Capt Fathom View Post
What is the purpose of the Minimum Descent Altitude?
To avoid getting mentioned on PPRuNe
Torukmacto is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2021, 10:36
  #7 (permalink)  
BSD
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Deepest Essex.
Posts: 400
Torukmacto - how true! But, hang about: elderly PPruners may recall a dramatic low fuel incident with an MMA F28 in the 70s in that region of WA.

Wonder if the inquiry will reveal any similarities?
BSD is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2021, 11:03
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: act
Posts: 181
Originally Posted by Capt Fathom View Post
What is the purpose of the Minimum Descent Altitude?
It’s there so the Coroner doesn’t talk about you in the past tense
Vref+5 is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2021, 11:11
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 1,714
Avherald info here:

Incident: Network Australia F100 at Paraburdoo on Nov 22nd 2021, descent below minimum without visual reference

Multiple CAVOK alternates in the area at the time it seems
dr dre is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2021, 11:25
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Egoli
Posts: 351
I might be missing something here. How do the powers know they where not visual at minima ????
volare_737 is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2021, 12:20
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by volare_737 View Post
I might be missing something here. How do the powers know they where not visual at minima ????
I imagine through the crew reporting it
NaFenn is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2021, 13:24
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Lower North Shore
Posts: 215
Originally Posted by NaFenn View Post
I imagine through the crew reporting it
maybe the FO snitched
Brakerider is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2021, 13:44
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 2,999
Originally Posted by Brakerider View Post
maybe the FO snitched
What ever happened to that famous CRM phrase “This will be our little secret"?
donpizmeov is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2021, 15:10
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Aus
Posts: 90
Yawn. It clearly didn’t spear in… moving right along…
Switchbait is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2021, 15:34
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 948
I had a quick look at the charts and the approaches seem to have minimums of 500 to 600 feet with broken 800 reported in the metar. I would not be surprised if they had ground contact during the first approach and were fairly confident they would get in at the next attempt. Weather actually seems to have got worse certainly as far as visibility (in light showers of rain) is concerned during the further hour they spent trying to land, which was probably not what they were expecting in the Pilbara in summer. I suspect very few of us have been in this position given most company´s procedures quite rightly limit the number of missed approaches before diverting. With hindsight I am sure they wish they had made some other choices. But in a just culture self reporting usually limits punitive consequences.
lederhosen is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2021, 19:12
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 4,043
Would the imminent Part 121 Alternate requirements (had they been in place) have prevented this event?
compressor stall is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2021, 21:57
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 1,376
Normally the ops manual gives you two approaches before you have to divert, unless there is a substantial improvement in the weather. To be sure of this I would want a report from a qualified met observer on the ground rather than making my own assessment.

They may have painted themselves into a corner by going below minimum divert fuel and then having no option but to land.
krismiler is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2021, 22:31
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NSW
Posts: 128
I blame Alan Joyce...
TBM-Legend is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2021, 00:00
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Oz
Posts: 71
Krismiler ,Remote WA is the Wild West. Very few Control Towers , fewer qualified observers and even fewer precision approaches and NO requirement for mandatory alternates for single runways. RNP has improved things but mostly its all pretty basic. Third world really.
Not hard to get into trouble especially if you are a true believer in company fuel policy. Personally I spent most of my career ignoring it WA.
Alt Flieger is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2021, 00:17
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 1,567
Several 2000mt sealed runways within 100nm and 20 within 200nm. Paraburdoo is far from isolated, all the nearby mine strips and then Newman at 115nm, Karatha, Hedland and Onslow all just over 150nm. With 4 attempts it seems more a fixation on getting in rather than looking for somewhere else to go, that's if what was said earlier about all the surrounding areas being CAVOK is true. After 2 or so attempts people tend to notice a jet floating around doing circles, so it gets attention, even the passengers will put in reports if they thought something was amiss.
43Inches is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.