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Sydney-Canberra proposed Twin-Otter floatplane service

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Sydney-Canberra proposed Twin-Otter floatplane service

Old 7th Dec 2020, 19:56
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Sydney-Canberra proposed Twin-Otter floatplane service

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-...posed/12957556

Sydney Seaplanes are proposing a twice daily Rose Bay - Lake Burley Griffen (West Basin) service using a 15 seat Twin Otter.

There is to be a test flight ‘next week’ (beginning 14 December).

Might be a unique opportunity for the photographers among you.

I don’t see this becoming a regular service. There is already a proposal to partly in-fill the lake at West Basin for apartment living.
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 20:14
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Thank god the propellers don't go in the water!

That looks sensational!
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 20:38
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The local Canberra Nimby’s are already voicing concerns!

The Canberra yacht club Commodore, hasn’t seen Sydney harbour on busy day.



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Old 7th Dec 2020, 20:55
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Good luck to them. I hope it makes a good impression and if it doesn’t, I hope it proves a point to those in power.
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 22:20
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They could take some lessons from Victoria BC Canada. We have over 100 movements a day sometimes in our little water aerodrome. https://www.focusonvictoria.ca/focus...our-midst-r14/
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 22:25
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Great idea but I can't see the Government allowing it on strategic policy grounds. CASA would, I think also not allow it even if it was technically possible. There will be a demonstration flight and then the project will be allowed to die in a welter of committees.

My reasoning is simple; Such a service, were it permitted and succeeds, would provide a constant reminder of the utility of General aviation (Little aircraft) to the public, public servants and legislators. Its the perfect advertisement for GA - which is why it can't be permitted.

A successful service raises a whole series of very uncomfortable policy questions for the Department of Transport and CASA. Here are some of them:

- Considering the billions we have spent on Sydney transport systems, Badgery's creek, freeways, etc. Why is this service even needed? Could it be that our major investment has been wasted? Our transport planning does not allow for floatplanes! Especially not in a designed environment like Canberra!

- Considering that the National Capital now has a floatplane service, how can any government or authority reject applications for similar services across Australia? It's the thin end of the wedge! How do we prevent private float planes from landing?

- What does this do to our "Green" credentials? Will Labor support such a service? The greens will go nuts!

- Considering the success of this service, what does this demonstration of the usefulness of GA aircraft mean for our policy positions on such things as airport privatisation, infrastructure investment as well as transport planning? What just happened to our "One size fits all" big airport model?

- How can CASA regulate or interfere with such a highly visible service? How do they regulate other services? With what effect?

These are just a few of the uncomfortable questions that would be asked but mustn't.
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 23:37
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I would imagine that this is just a publicity announcement. I doubt that a twice daily service is viable and the pollies are never going to step foot in a Twotter.
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 00:27
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Brilliant idea...imagine being able to step onto an aircraft at Rose Bay (almost in central Sydney) and hop off in central Canberra. Beats all that awful traffic out of Sydney on the Hume Hwy.
Of course there will be some bureaucratic hurdle to prevent this
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 00:43
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I doubt it's aimed at politicians. High worth tourism perhaps, Canberra is a great place to visit, I would jump at the chance to do the equivalent in any country.
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 01:06
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I have ridden the Single Otter from Victoria to Vancouver, and it is a gorgeous flight - over water all the way, perfect for a forced landing in a single floatplane. Our baggage went by bus on the ferry - not much space in an Otter when you put the pax on board.

If the flight is carried out IFR (which it will probably have to, as RPT) on a cloudy day, will they shoot the approach to Canberra Apt and then go VFR to the puddle? Will CA$A insist on Flight Attendants? X-ray security at Rose Bay and at "Gough's Harbour"? Tarmac terriers in yellow "FollowMe" boats scooting around the water, examining boating people for not displaying ASIC? Big fences put up around Sydney Harbour to stop intruders?

Somebody in CA$A will be licking his lips as he contemplates the Fees and Charges applicable to this simple run. And Sydney Airports Corporation will be screaming about missing out on a landing fee.
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 01:44
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Such a service, were it permitted and fails, would provide a constant reminder of the futility of General aviation (Little aircraft) to the public, public servants and legislators
.

Careful what you wish for.
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 02:15
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Some people on here do spout absolute rubbish. The fares suggested are competitive with Sydney - Canberra via jet RPT. Good tourist market.
Not a "twotter" Aircraft proposed is a Cessna Caravan.
Sunfish views suggest he is opposed to aviation in general as he appears unable to write anything positive about anything in aviation. Must be a depressing life.
NCA badly need educating about aviation. That would be a much better investment of time and effort than some of the crap written here. Hopefully Sydney Seaplanes staff will be able to explain in short sentences with single syllable words.
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 02:47
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Could continue on to Jindabyne.
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 02:55
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Sydney Seaplanes previously used their C208 Caravan on an approved RPT service from Rose Bay to Newcastle, landing in the Hunter river and tying up near Honeysuckle, in the early 2010's I guess? It attracted a few regulars, but apparently was not successful in the long term. I tried it once - a wonderful way to travel on a nice day. This service was single pilot, no flight attendant. Each passenger was issued a belt mounted life jacket which you had to have at the ready during the flight (though you didn't actually fully don it). My understanding is this was a condition of approval for single engine operations in RPT - you must always be within gliding distance of a landing area, and the ocean counted but it was presumed an ocean landing would not necessarily be upright, hence the life jackets. The flight path followed the coast up to Newcastle and only operated VFR as I understand it. How would that work for a Canberra service, given the terrain would surely not be suitable for such a condition?

Btw, Wikipedia claims that Rose Bay has IATA code RSE - is that accurate? Was there an equivalent code for Newcastle CBD/Hunter River when Sydney Seaplanes operated that service? Could travel agents / booking channels sell these tickets "normally?" I remember booking mine direct through the web site.
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 03:16
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Not a "twotter" Aircraft proposed is a Cessna Caravan.
15 passengers would be a good load in a Caravan!

"The company estimates each flight would be able to carry 15 passengers, each paying about $300 for a one-way ticket."

"Sydney Seaplanes would use a 15-passenger de Havilland Twin Otter seaplane like the one pictured."


You wouldn't think there were too many spare Otters floating around!

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Old 8th Dec 2020, 03:47
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So how does this all work in IMC? The departure/arrival/approach tracking alone is difficult once in cloud. You could make up some IFR Water Approaches and some SIDs & STARs but how low are they going to get you with all the terrain around? Not to mention the icing. Unless they are prepared to throw alot of money at this operation I doubt it will get off the ground.
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 04:17
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You wouldn't think there were too many spare Otters floating around!
Maybe a cunning stunt CF??
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 04:32
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
So how does this all work in IMC? The departure/arrival/approach tracking alone is difficult once in cloud. You could make up some IFR Water Approaches and some SIDs & STARs but how low are they going to get you with all the terrain around? Not to mention the icing. Unless they are prepared to throw alot of money at this operation I doubt it will get off the ground.
Did you mean off the water?
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 04:58
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https://www.canberratimes.com.au/sto...ute-to-sydney/

A 208 for the 'proving' flight with larger capacity (Twin Otter) if sufficient demand?

If the report in the Canberra Times is accurate, the National Capital Authority seem to have a positive view depending on issues to be addressed (safe passenger loading/unloading, refuelling, etc)

Terrain, near lake buildings, current lack of navaids ... approach & take-off options may be somewhat restricted.

Black Mountain Tower is about 475 metres above lake level, about 2.5km NW from West Basin

I’d like to see it work but am not too hopeful.

Last edited by layman; 8th Dec 2020 at 08:59.
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 05:51
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Well that’s one way to go broke I guess...
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