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ABC: Pilot Shortage ‘flipped around’

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ABC: Pilot Shortage ‘flipped around’

Old 3rd Aug 2020, 21:35
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by havick View Post
True to some degree but, someone with an unrelated degree to flying (specialised) with no experience in the field will find it difficult to go back to that field if they lose their flying job.
This is something I’m hearing from a lot of stood down aviation workers at the moment. They have qualifications in a second field, but due to having not worked in that other industry for a number of years their qualifications aren’t recognised and are essentially meaningless, forcing them to be employable only in unskilled labour like traffic controller or checkout at Coles.
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 22:06
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by havick View Post
True to some degree but, someone with an unrelated degree to flying (specialised) with no experience in the field will find it difficult to go back to that field if they lose their flying job.
Havick & dr dre,

I think you both nailed the problem. From the time I started flying in the mid 1960s the conventional wisdom has been get a degree in another field as a fall-back in case the aviation thing goes sour.

While I'd never argue against more education, I just think there are some practical problems with that advice if trying to apply it:

Does the field actually require more than an undergraduate degree to be successful ?

Did you have actual working experience in the field ? If so, how much...how long ago ?

[In my legacy salad days, I used to fly with captains who said that if they weren't making $XXX,XXX flying an airplane, they'd make that much doing something else because they had a degree in Fancy Engineering from Big Tech University. They never engineered anything and the last engineering problem they solved involved a slide rule]

Does the field require continuing education credits to remain a professional qualification ?

Do you have contacts in the field ? [networking is everything]

There are probably more issues with the conventional wisdom. It's a tough spot to be in. My feeble Plan B centered on the loss of medical certification. So, how to turn flying experience into non-flying aviation employment. I have no idea if my plan would've worked but am sure it wouldn't in the current mess.

It is possible to "retool" one's self but requires a herculean effort. For example, I looked into being an X-ray technician. Reasonable tuition cost, likely employment but two years of full time school...FULL...TIME. And if you want to run a CAT scan or MRI for higher pay, it requires experience and further schooling.

It can be done...just not by me.

Last edited by bafanguy; 3rd Aug 2020 at 22:20.
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Old 4th Aug 2020, 01:52
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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I can assure you 'another degree' doesn't help. I did a law degree years ago but haven't done any work in that field for 14 years and apart from a cv filler it hasn't opened any doors to me at the moment as I am not law current in terms of employment. It qualifies me for all the entry level jobs to start building a new career but I would almost be better off going and becoming an electrician apprentice, more bang for my buck. As above, to be really useful I really would need to have 10 years legal experience on my c.v. as well but that would have delayed my flying career by 10 years. If I was starting again I would have done something in computing and maintained a sideline as a freelance web designer or similar.
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Old 4th Aug 2020, 01:55
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Ground staff and cabin crew can easily transition into other customer service areas, for pilots it's not so easy as our skills are highly specialised and narrowly focused. The attributes such as bearing responsibility and making decisions under pressure can help in other areas but they aren't hard paper qualifications. Once you've been out of any field for a long time it becomes hard to get back in, working practices change, new technology develops and new laws are introduced. Show a motor mechanic who last worked on cars in the late 1990s, a brand new vehicle today and he'd be hard pressed to do an oil change.

The ability to sell is a highly useful skill as it never goes out of date, is in demand in most sectors and offers high earning potential.

Nurses have been in such high demand that at times, health authorities have offered to employ and retrain those with previous experience who have been out of the profession for a few years.

The usual fall backs of having a Responsible Server of Alcohol certificate, a taxi driver authorisation or a security guard licence can at least put food on the table between jobs
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Old 4th Aug 2020, 03:01
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Oh My!!
Today, I am a retiree and I don't even think about working agen, But there was a time when I thought I might, just to give myself something to do while I work it all out.

This is how it went.
Previous skills and quals for which I have many but not used in the previous 5 years, no longer relevant.
Between the time of noticing a job ad that I thought that might be ok and pressing the send button, about 500 down the list in the inbox.(Pre Covid)
Don't expect a reply from more than 1 in 20 applications at all and those that do up to 6 weeks if you followed up.(Pre Covid)
Over 50, don't expect to be taken seriously.
New Australians who haven't mastered the English language are more desirable than you
As it was at the time 457 visa holders, especially in govt jobs more desirable than an Australian born qualified person new to the field.
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 11:41
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Fixer or Fokker

Originally Posted by f1yhigh View Post
Honest question and I mean no malice by this, who regrets becoming a pilot? and if you could do it all over again, what careers would you get into?
I don't think many people on this site would regret becoming a pilot.
Many would regret investing so much on their aviation careers.
An industry with no moral code or ethics, where you can reach the top with an IQ of 97.
A career where you can buy a job but need to be comfortable around soulless snakes.
We had the choice to be Fixers or Fokkers and most chose the later.
To answer your question f1yhigh, I would have got into a career focused on fixing.
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 15:13
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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The most recession, 9/11 and CoVID proof qualification I have is a truck licence (Heavy rigid first then semi trailer).

Got the heavy rigid truck licence in mid 90's when the local Tafe did it for $300. I know they are much more expensive now (in Sydney you can get the licence for $1000 atm).

Truck driving isn't glamorous nor will you make a fortune but if you look on Seek right now, you will still see a ton of truck driving jobs. No digging holes or stacking shelves. Air conditioned comfort and listen to music all day.

My main point being is the training won't take 3 years like a degree (usually just 1 or 2 days) and you don't really need to have any sort of currency. It's also a lot cheaper than Uni.
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 18:58
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Yeah Right! I hold an MC, Class 3 Double B as it was in the day, late 80's even used it for a couple of years an filled a logbook. offered my services during the drought carting hay for free as a community service trying to help. When I told them I haven't driven one since the early 90's they laughed. The days of just driving the truck are long gone.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 01:31
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Truck Driving is the just the same as aviation. Unless you have current experience in higher weights you are just battling it out with all the shonks. Sure there are plenty of jobs for people who have spent 4-5 years driving but you aren't just going to walk up with a license, no experience and start driving HR multi combination.

At the end of the day despite all these know alls on here who think a pilot will waltz into any industry on the planet, reality is unless you are qualified, and have current experience you arent really doing anything just because you are a pilot.

Basically you would have had to other qualifications, been working part time in another industry, whilst simultaneously somehow being an airline pilot working unstable shift work. Sure if you have no life or wife and kids it could be done, but I don't see how you could otherwise.

And those who have experience from other industries tend to be career FOs as they started to late in aviation. Very Very few manage to do both.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 02:46
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by non_state_actor View Post
Basically you would have had to other qualifications, been working part time in another industry, whilst simultaneously somehow being an airline pilot working unstable shift work. Sure if you have no life or wife and kids it could be done, but I don't see how you could otherwise.
That’s something I’ve found to be quite common with Aviation employees during this downturn. A lot have qualifications and even substantial experience in another profession, but unless they’ve kept those qualifications current during their time in aviation by basically working two jobs at once they’re finding those qualifications meaningless.

I was always told to get a degree or a trade in a field outside of aviation because one day if there was a downturn having that second qualification would mean I could just walk into a well paid alternate job straight away, but that’s not the case.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 02:59
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by non_state_actor View Post
Truck Driving is the just the same as aviation. Unless you have current experience in higher weights you are just battling it out with all the shonks. Sure there are plenty of jobs for people who have spent 4-5 years driving but you aren't just going to walk up with a license, no experience and start driving HR multi combination.

At the end of the day despite all these know alls on here who think a pilot will waltz into any industry on the planet, reality is unless you are qualified, and have current experience you arent really doing anything just because you are a pilot.

Basically you would have had to other qualifications, been working part time in another industry, whilst simultaneously somehow being an airline pilot working unstable shift work. Sure if you have no life or wife and kids it could be done, but I don't see how you could otherwise.

And those who have experience from other industries tend to be career FOs as they started to late in aviation. Very Very few manage to do both.
Current driving a truck? Never heard of that before. Also there is no such thing as a HR combination. I had been away from driving a truck for 5 years and got hired on straight away when AV8 went under.

Driving a truck is like driving a car. Stick to commenting on things you know something about.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 04:58
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Driving a Truck is like Driving a Car

Originally Posted by Climb150 View Post
Current driving a truck? Never heard of that before. Also there is no such thing as a HR combination. I had been away from driving a truck for 5 years and got hired on straight away when AV8 went under.

Driving a truck is like driving a car. Stick to commenting on things you know something about.
Sounds like good advice, I can't remember ever needing a route plan driving a car.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 05:24
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Current driving a truck? Never heard of that before. Also there is no such thing as a HR combination. I had been away from driving a truck for 5 years and got hired on straight away when AV8 went under.
You don't need to be current you just need to have driven professionally at the size the employer wants. I have a HR license from a long time ago but never really used it in anger. Did look into upgrading to MC but discovered the issues stated above. Family have worked in trucking and they got a start by being friends with the owner and working for free, just like aviation!

Last edited by non_state_actor; 9th Aug 2020 at 05:53.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 06:25
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Being in the right place at the right time helps in getting any job, as does being willing to do the sort of work those with more experience in the field won’t look at.

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Old 9th Aug 2020, 13:13
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post

I was always told to get a degree or a trade in a field outside of aviation because one day if there was a downturn having that second qualification would mean I could just walk into a well paid alternate job straight away, but that’s not the case.
This is where a trade is much, much handier than a degree it would seem. Granted for some trades there is a little bit more to it, but not much. Like for a sparkie, pay your yearly license fees, keep up your first aid cert and you're good to go. Some others are even easier like gyprocking, painting, landscaping etc. Most tradies will know a lot of other tradies who'll know a lot of other tradies. A couple of phone calls and I can be on a site by next week if not tomorrow.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 13:47
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by plotplot View Post
Some others are even easier like gyprocking, painting, landscaping etc. Most tradies will know a lot of other tradies who'll know a lot of other tradies. A couple of phone calls and I can be on a site by next week if not tomorrow.
Well here's an opportunity for the acid test. Whether you need a job right now or not, how about you make those calls and report back what they say.
My guess is, I think you're in for a rude shock.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 20:52
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Xeptu View Post
Well here's an opportunity for the acid test. Whether you need a job right now or not, how about you make those calls and report back what they say.
My guess is, I think you're in for a rude shock.
I tend to agree - unless you can demonstrate skill, no one is likely to want to train you on the job knowing you don't really want to be there and will bugger off back to aviation at the first opportunity.
An alternative would be to go fruit picking with the Pacific Islanders that the farmers are crying out for because our career dole bludgers can't get off their fat arses to do anything useful. and have shown themselves to be un-trainable.
The money might be crap, but think of the positives - working in the sun will improve your fitness beyond anything attainable in the gym and those Islanders could show you a good time with a whole fresh outlook on life.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 22:07
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mach E Avelli View Post
I tend to agree - unless you can demonstrate skill, no one is likely to want to train you on the job knowing you don't really want to be there and will bugger off back to aviation at the first opportunity.
An alternative would be to go fruit picking with the Pacific Islanders that the farmers are crying out for because our career dole bludgers can't get off their fat arses to do anything useful. and have shown themselves to be un-trainable.
The money might be crap, but think of the positives - working in the sun will improve your fitness beyond anything attainable in the gym and those Islanders could show you a good time with a whole fresh outlook on life.
I'm not talking about being calling random tradies to try and get work in a trade you've never worked in, and getting trained on the job. I'm talking about having those backgrounds already and being able to pick them back up if required. I may not have made that clear

And I've already made those calls pre-emptively. Job waiting for me no worries. Construction is yet to be drastically affected. At least where I have connections.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 23:08
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Plotter you are fortunate if you have a saleable skill. Some pilots (myself included) are not all that good at working for a living. That's why I took up flying in the first place - I tried work and did not like it.
But picking mangoes on an all expenses paid holiday in the tropics; now if I was 20 years younger, needed money and unemployed, I would do that in preference to joining a queue at Centrelink. Dealing with that lot must be quite depressing.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 23:25
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mach E Avelli View Post
Plotter you are fortunate if you have a saleable skill. Some pilots (myself included) are not all that good at working for a living. That's why I took up flying in the first place - I tried work and did not like it.
But picking mangoes on an all expenses paid holiday in the tropics; now if I was 20 years younger, needed money and unemployed, I would do that in preference to joining a queue at Centrelink. Dealing with that lot must be quite depressing.
That's true Mach, but as with everything, there is always a trade-off. My years in construction prior to making the switch to aviation has left me in the position of probably being one of those career FO's that someone mentioned earlier, albeit with a solid fall-back option. But I'd pick career FO at 55 over still swinging a hammer at 55 any day of the week.
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