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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Old 16th Sep 2020, 00:26
  #1821 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Don't worry Ducksnuts, I'm still here - just been busy working!

Is 260 on LWOP enough? I hope so, but according to the departed Tino it's not. No vaccine found in the next 6-12 months will probably result in Allan doing another 'fleet review'. That's when shit will hit the fan for redundancy's.

The VR/ER lawsuit appears to be a problem. If those pilots who can't let go of the golden goose turn out to be successful Qantas may just pull the pin on the entire operation. "We looked at VR as per the EBA requirements. Sorry it didn't work out, we are now commencing CR".

I remember Tino saying in a webinar that if Qantas got desperate they have a lot of commercial real estate and offices they can juggle. Yesterdays news from Venessa shows just how bad the situation is becoming. I'm sure Allan just wants a $200m slice of the pie from the QLD government.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 00:49
  #1822 (permalink)  
 
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The narrative is changing

There is also a good chance that several of the aircraft type, such as the A380s won’t have much (if any) place in the post-COVID Qantas line up. It would be unsurprising to see a larger number of international pilots made redundant before the airline resumes normal services.

And Joyce is no stranger to playing industrial relations hardball. He did so in order to get a 30 per cent productivity lift when introducing direct flights from Perth to London and again on the Sunrise project to fly direct from Sydney and Melbourne to London, Paris and New York.
Additionally, chatter indicating 180 day recency issues and promised “stand up” in turn being re-evaluated highlighted on Qrewroom.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 01:02
  #1823 (permalink)  
 
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Just like seniority, there will be winners and losers. Ces’t la vie.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 01:56
  #1824 (permalink)  
 
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So normanton, how much LWOP did you take?
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 02:10
  #1825 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CaptCloudbuster View Post
The narrative is changing



Additionally, chatter indicating 180 day recency issues and promised “stand up” in turn being re-evaluated highlighted on Qrewroom.
The 180 day training issue is a cost to the company so needs approval from higher up. I believe Flt Ops are putting a very strong case to do this training bearing in mind the potential bottle neck if they don’t when demand ramps up. It’s not a one way street. If QF wants LH pilots to vote the EA variations up then they must give something back in return, whatever it is. I would suggest that LH pilots do have some negotiating power and the very least is to keep post 180 day training going.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 02:35
  #1826 (permalink)  
 
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No just a LH issue. Some in SH in MEL are looking at 180 day recency too. I take on board your comments however. My view is as the border shutdowns continue unabated and we continue to see 15-20% Domestic rather than 70% Flight Ops won’t have a say in the matter.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 05:43
  #1827 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CaptCloudbuster View Post
The narrative is changing



Additionally, chatter indicating 180 day recency issues and promised “stand up” in turn being re-evaluated highlighted on Qrewroom.
If I were the Northern Territory Government I'd offer $500m conditional on the operation based at Tennant Creek!
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 06:29
  #1828 (permalink)  

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Clearly, the real estate review is not the most important matter at hand. What about those beards eh?
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 08:48
  #1829 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CaptCloudbuster View Post
No just a LH issue. Some in SH in MEL are looking at 180 day recency too. I take on board your comments however. My view is as the border shutdowns continue unabated and we continue to see 15-20% Domestic rather than 70% Flight Ops won’t have a say in the matter.
I don't really care about 180 day recency. If QF decide to save money short term, it will cost them time and money in the longer term. It's up to them to assess and balance the risks. If there is a sudden upswing in flying out of Melbourne and Sydney (unlikely, I reckon) then they MIGHT get caught with their pants down - meh, their call. I've got enough to worry about without wondering whether my 180 day recency will lapse and if QF will have the time, money and training resources to fix the problem expeditiously on the other side.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 09:33
  #1830 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by normanton View Post
Is 260 on LWOP enough?………..
…………..The VR/ER lawsuit appears to be a problem.
Second quote first.
A close colleague spoke with a manager in the last few days. It seems the hold-up in processing the VR is not with the older cohort's claim but with a particular group who applied for VR but can't be replaced in the short term.

With that in mind, maybe 260 taking LWOP is enough (for now) and VR will be withdrawn or allowed to lapse on Nov 7th, possibly to be reviewed at a later date. The CP did mention a number of times yesterday that retaining cash is the imperative whilst domestic borders remain closed.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 10:27
  #1831 (permalink)  
 
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Which particular cohort may that be? 330 t&cs at a guess....
how does that hold things up
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 23:56
  #1832 (permalink)  
 
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Even the 400 crew who realise that they’ve had their last flight can’t leave.
’Hotel California’ again!
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 01:45
  #1833 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wingspar View Post
Even the 400 crew who realise that they’ve had their last flight can’t leave.
’Hotel California’ again!
Can’t” leave? As far as I know indentured servitude is illegal in Australia, any pilot employed by any company can leave at any time with the minimum notice period.
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 03:07
  #1834 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Can’t” leave? As far as I know indentured servitude is illegal in Australia, any pilot employed by any company can leave at any time with the minimum notice period.



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Old 17th Sep 2020, 03:18
  #1835 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by C441 View Post
Second quote first.
A close colleague spoke with a manager in the last few days. It seems the hold-up in processing the VR is not with the older cohort's claim but with a particular group who applied for VR but can't be replaced in the short term.
bc

That doesn’t stack up. The Entire airline is in surplus.
Being a targeted program, the B744 applicants should have been out the door immediately.
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 03:42
  #1836 (permalink)  
 
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A cynic (what!, on PPRuNe?) might suggest that the company has followed the requirements of EA10 15.10.1:

Subject to this Agreement, the Company will manage all necessary pilot reductions in a manner aimed at minimising the need for compulsory redundancies by considering all reasonable alternatives, including natural attrition, LWOP, voluntary redeployment, voluntary secondment and voluntary redundancies.

They've considered VR, even sought EoIs, decided it's not for them, and will now move on to CRs………Let's hope not.

Personally, I'm not that cynical and suspect VRs will go ahead eventually but there is some (probably financial) advantage in lumping all 188 applicants together.

Last edited by C441; 17th Sep 2020 at 08:35.
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 03:49
  #1837 (permalink)  
Keg

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I too wondered about the timing and figured that they could have let go of the 747 crew who had EOI’d the VR about a week after the applications closed. For whatever reason they’ve decided to do them all together.

I still reckon they’ll accept most/ all of those who have EOI’d. Even those in categories they’re possibly worried about replacing in the short term are likely to still be accepted though the timing for their departure may vary from everyone else.

Having offered VR, I reckon they’d get absolutely nailed if they said ‘no’ some of it and then went down the road of CR instead.
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 05:23
  #1838 (permalink)  
 
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Re: 180 day recency issues

Consider this quote from treasury.gov.au about the purpose of JobKeeper:

The JobKeeper Payment will support employers to maintain their connection to their employees.
These connections will enable business to reactivate their operations quickly — without having to rehire staff — when the crisis is over.
Has Qantas been using JobKeeper for its intended purpose, or have they been pocketing the cash to help prop up the bottom line? Should the money have been used instead to keep everyone current?
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 05:44
  #1839 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Transition Layer View Post
Re: 180 day recency issues

Consider this quote from treasury.gov.au about the purpose of JobKeeper:



Has Qantas been using JobKeeper for its intended purpose, or have they been pocketing the cash to help prop up the bottom line? Should the money have been used instead to keep everyone current?
Very good point!
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 06:46
  #1840 (permalink)  
 
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^^^^^^. +1
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