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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Old 12th Aug 2020, 22:33
  #1341 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 105
For goodness sakes the company has you all running around with your heads cut off. Just like they want.

The threat of CR is a bluff, at this early stage anyway. They don't want to pay for CR. They are expensive and the chances are they will have to put you back on, whether in 3 months or 3 years thus incurring a second cost. They are scaring everyone and especially the junior to take LWOP {with the threat of CR if they don't} to do one thing and that is to remove the obligation to pay leave entitlements whilst on stand down. No other reason but to save money. They have people believing all of this. They do not want CR, it costs too much.

If this virus runs for another couple of years then sure things are different and none of us may survive but the company will have to follow the EA and CR from bottom up. But at the moment they can keep us on stand down. Going on LWOP only robs you of your entitlements under the EA, sold to you by a company who is threatening CR.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 22:48
  #1342 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 565
CR is not a threat, it's a requirement. Of course it is to be avoided and yes it will be expensive, that's why you won't get paid in full straight away, it'll be over a few years, no different to an insolvency and arguably that's what it is. Of course they will want as many as possible to take LWOP it's a better option for the company but not really an option for you personally.
When push comes to shove and they have no choice, CR is all that's left and seniority will play no part in it. Being junior won't automatically mean being redundant.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 22:51
  #1343 (permalink)  
Keg

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Originally Posted by Xeptu View Post
Does it matter, it's still a very small number
It doesn’t matter to me but I’m not the one constantly banging on that the sky is falling because VR was ‘under subscribed’ when the reality is it wasn’t and hit the target perfectly.

If QF pulls the trigger and enacts these VRs and ERs that by the middle of next year there will be 240ish less pilots in Qantas. That deals with the excess they were concerned about.

Last time QF gave out VRs we were recruiting madly just over 18 months later. Hopefully this time will be exactly the same.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 23:02
  #1344 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Originally Posted by Keg View Post
there will be 240ish less pilots in Qantas.
fewer pilots

Come on Keg, we have standards
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 23:02
  #1345 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 37
Posts: 484
I could be wrong here but Iím pretty sure Tino said in a webinar that anyone the company has placed in the ER program (i.e. anyone who is 63+) is an addition to the 196.

If there is 60 pilots in the ER program that the company wants gone, then effectively the true number of pilots to go right now is 196 + 60 = 256.

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Old 13th Aug 2020, 00:07
  #1346 (permalink)  
Keg

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Wink

Originally Posted by ruprecht View Post
fewer pilots

Come on Keg, we have standards
Lol. Oops. Sadly I never joined the RAAF and had these sorts of errors beaten out of me during OTS. I bow to your greater wisdom (and wit!).
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 00:23
  #1347 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Gladstone
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Originally Posted by normanton View Post
I could be wrong here but Iím pretty sure Tino said in a webinar that anyone the company has placed in the ER program (i.e. anyone who is 63+) is an addition to the 196.

If there is 60 pilots in the ER program that the company wants gone, then effectively the true number of pilots to go right now is 196 + 60 = 256.

Correct, ER is in addition to the 196 BUT come 2022 when the long term surplus was forecast..the 60 odd will be gone regardless if they chose to take it now or remain stood down for 2 years...the 196 targeted for VR would not be.

End of the day we had 188 binding submissions, with 60 leaving now under ER or forcefully come 2022, a 250 reduction or just shy of 20% in LH.

We all know what happens to the age demographic post 2022 - natural attrition to sort out any remaining surplus should the 380 not come back in full.

Im sure some SH folk will be waving goodbye in the years ahead too.


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Old 13th Aug 2020, 01:24
  #1348 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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The ER pilots cannot be made to go while they are stood down, so don’t count on them leaving.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 01:36
  #1349 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
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Originally Posted by dragon man View Post
The ER pilots cannot be made to go while they are stood down, so donít count on them leaving.

potentially a technicality which Iím sure QF are all over. I dunno...stand them up the day prior 🤷‍♂️
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 01:42
  #1350 (permalink)  
Keg

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Care to explain that logic a bit more dragon man? Fujiroll has picked the solution!
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 02:04
  #1351 (permalink)  
 
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Read the Christie case regarding inherent requirements of the job, there is no job.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 02:12
  #1352 (permalink)  
Keg

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The inherent requirements to be able to operate anywhere on the network are unchanged no? The fact that Qantas has suspended the network due to government directions doesn’t change that requirement.

By all means argue that in court. Lose and they’ve done their $$$. Win and QF will pursue something along the lines of Fujiroll’s idea, the 65 year old will still be retired, and the person arguing the case has has still done their $$$.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 02:26
  #1353 (permalink)  
 
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You have your opinion I have mine from a barrister , if you can be then please explain why there are a number of pilots stood down still here over 65? I’ll tell you why because Qantas know they can’t get rid of them.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 02:48
  #1354 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: oz
Posts: 290
Wow, a barrister. Thatís very cool.

Last edited by Iron Bar; 13th Aug 2020 at 03:04.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 02:53
  #1355 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by dragon man View Post
l then please explain why there are a number of pilots stood down still here over 65?
Which haul?
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 02:53
  #1356 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Gold Coast
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Why wouldn't the ER pilots elect to go and take what is on offer (whether or not it is appropriate) ? If they hang on they may not get anything.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 03:23
  #1357 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by Ex747 View Post
Why wouldn't the ER pilots elect to go and take what is on offer (whether or not it is appropriate) ? If they hang on they may not get anything.
because thatd make sense to anyone but the entitled generation

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Old 13th Aug 2020, 03:32
  #1358 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by maggot View Post
because thatd make sense to anyone but the entitled generation
Another goose, because the leave that we accrue is greater than the ER in some cases for pilots that stayed in Div 3 super based on years of service times average final salary is icing on the cake.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 03:32
  #1359 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Which haul?
In long haul
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 03:45
  #1360 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by dragon man View Post
Another goose, because the leave that we accrue is greater than the ER in some cases for pilots that stayed in Div 3 super based on years of service times average final salary is icing on the cake.
just like those that defend the 65+ short haul go sick scam

a rort is a rort is a rort
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