Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Old 29th Jun 2020, 10:02
  #561 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 871
Fair work will judge based on what is best for the greater good, that means the best way of keeping some jobs (not all) and the company functioning in a world of Covid and health restrictions FW a will not save you as an individual if you are just dragging the Tribe down with you. It is the new world order. Adapt and overcome. (Gunnery Sergeant Highway).
ozbiggles is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 11:02
  #562 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: SE QLD
Posts: 276
Originally Posted by normanton View Post
Of course they will. They will argue there is no work for the 380 and thus you can remain stood down. Just because the borders are open, in the eyes of Qantas, changes nothing. If there is no useful work for the 380, and they intend to keep the fleet, then you can remain stood down.

Not saying I agree with it, but it will require the union taking the matter to FWA. You would assume Qantas has already done the homework on this.
Itís not based on whether you agree, or whether they intend to keep the fleet. The EBA is quite clear on when stand down can occur. FWA are pretty clear that in the case of an EBA covering a situation, they wonít interfere with it.

Union wonít need to do much, if anything. The EBA that was recently voted upon during this pandemic, stands.

Normanton, what QF would like to do, and what they can do, are very different things.

Wonít stop them trying to cut a deal to pull the wool over your eyes where they can though!

LH and SH EBAs are pretty tight - and not in QFs favour. Canít speak for the other EBAs in the group.
ScepticalOptomist is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 22:03
  #563 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist View Post
Itís not based on whether you agree, or whether they intend to keep the fleet. The EBA is quite clear on when stand down can occur. FWA are pretty clear that in the case of an EBA covering a situation, they wonít interfere with it.

Union wonít need to do much, if anything. The EBA that was recently voted upon during this pandemic, stands.

Normanton, what QF would like to do, and what they can do, are very different things.

Wonít stop them trying to cut a deal to pull the wool over your eyes where they can though!

LH and SH EBAs are pretty tight - and not in QFs favour. Canít speak for the other EBAs in the group.
Qantas initially announced they were grounding the A380 for 6 months based on the collapse of forward bookings. That was before the international borders were closed. The borders closed very soon after this announcement which left Qantas with no choice but to ground the fleet. Once the borders open, if there is still not sufficient forward bookings, Qantas will leave crew stood down as they were going to originally, due to lack of demand - not the closure of the borders. Unfortunately the EA does not address how long crew can remain stood down so arbitration will eventually be needed to determine when the stand down no longer applies.
aviones is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 22:24
  #564 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by C441 View Post
As one of those staring at conceivably 3 years of stand-down I hope you're right, but one thing I am sure of is that Qantas demonstrated during the EA negotiations that they are far from a benevolent society. They will endeavour to keep us stood down as long as they can - by fair means or foul.

Thats because some of those ego driven sky gods amongst your A380 lot are total wank#rs and deserve whatís coming. Sadly, they might take the good guys down with them. Surely the government wonít keep giving these half a million dollar guys jobkeeper when there are so many others out there who are really finding it tough going and need the help. The gravy train is done and dusted!
Ruvap is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 22:52
  #565 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: oz
Posts: 299
+1 for Ruvap on job keeper, means test on the way?

Anyone who thinks there will be some magic trigger or commercial epiphany forcing Qantas away from stand down provisions, is dreaminí. Covid effects will last for a long time and as was mentioned earlier by Ozbiggles, the greater good will trump the interests of the senior pilot cadre.

Fat guy in coat, 100% correct. I doubt that will go to far. Industrially difficult and potentially a very negative outcome.



Last edited by Iron Bar; 30th Jun 2020 at 07:12.
Iron Bar is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 22:58
  #566 (permalink)  
34R
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 49
Posts: 230
Originally Posted by Ruvap View Post
Thats because some of those ego driven sky gods amongst your A380 lot are total wank#rs and deserve whatís coming.
What an imbecilic comment.
Every fleet in every airline has wankers among them, but nobody deserves ďwhatís comingĒ....

I've been through it before and I wouldnít wish it on anybody.


34R is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 22:59
  #567 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: S33E151
Posts: 986
Disgraceful attitude guys. Those 'wank#rs' on the 380 gave you the conditions you now enjoy. I can scarcely believe such tripe comes from supposedly educated people.
V-Jet is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 23:23
  #568 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Wherever I can log on.
Posts: 1,759
Very poor comments from Ruvap & Iron Bar. It’s times like this that we should be supporting each other, not insulting & denigrating your peers.
Going Boeing is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 23:25
  #569 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 1,270
Originally Posted by Fatguyinalittlecoat View Post
I do find it amusing how, after spending the last 30 years denigrating SH pilots, and telling all and sundry how crap the 737 is, there are now demands (both privately and even publicly, Iím told) from A380 crew to be given the right to displace a 737 position.
Well thatís not going to happen.

For one, itís not legal (canít displace someone working under another agreement), this was established and settled during the 2014 RIN.

Secondly itíd be a massive expense to retrain all of your domestic pilots, and management have made it quite clear they want absolutely zero unnecessary expense.

It will never happen.
dr dre is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 23:27
  #570 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 45
Posts: 1,170
Shorthaul has been denigrated for years, nothing new about that, so I don’t think there is any gain abusing others in this current plight, ironically now the 737 is the senior fleet at least for the next couple of years, am told there will be very little training from LH to Shorthaul as it costs far too much in the short to medium term anyway. There may be some training longish term as Domestic gets back to normal levels and attrition slowly reduces the SH crew numbers. Displacements between different awards? Lol that’s the funniest thing I’ve read for ages, it goes against everything the whole RIN process is legally blinded by, try and ask FWA about that fairytale request..
Angle of Attack is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 23:38
  #571 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by Fatguyinalittlecoat View Post
I do find it amusing how, after spending the last 30 years denigrating SH pilots, and telling all and sundry how crap the 737 is, there are now demands (both privately and even publicly, Iím told) from A380 crew to be given the right to displace a 737 position.
hear hear.....The CEO is absolutely doing the right thing. Those senior A380/747 pilots only put a uniform on maybe 15 days every 56 day BP and for that they make a killing and still they complain. What they make in allowances alone would pay the mortgage for some of the battlers in society. There is no way they deserve any jobkeeper amount so that must be stopped ASAP!
Ruvap is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 23:40
  #572 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by Ruvap View Post
hear hear.....The CEO is absolutely doing the right thing. Those senior A380/747 pilots only put a uniform on maybe 15 days every 56 day BP and for that they make a killing and still they complain. What they make in allowances alone would pay the mortgage for some of the battlers in society. There is no way they deserve any jobkeeper amount so that must be stopped ASAP!
If youíre going to troll, you could be a little less obvious...
ruprecht is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2020, 00:39
  #573 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,200
Originally Posted by Ruvap View Post
hear hear.....The CEO is absolutely doing the right thing. Those senior A380/747 pilots only put a uniform on maybe 15 days every 56 day BP and for that they make a killing and still they complain. What they make in allowances alone would pay the mortgage for some of the battlers in society. There is no way they deserve any jobkeeper amount so that must be stopped ASAP!

What a goose you are, 15 days in 56 if only.
dragon man is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2020, 00:40
  #574 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 106
It doesn’t help when you have a senior LH captain call into a webinar and demand a slot on the 737, then out himself on qrewroom telling everyone that he’s just looking after number 1, and disputing that “luck of draw, or right place, right time” has anything to do with this industry. It was embarrassing and probably solidified the belief from most on the 737 of the arrogance and superiority the guys at the top feel they are entitled to. Looking after number 1 can work both ways, so I wouldn’t expect too many on the 737 to much sympathy.
Chad Gates is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2020, 00:58
  #575 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,200
In that case he is a goose who doesn’t understand his contract and wants to have his cake and eat it to and that’s not going to happen. You take the good with the bad.
dragon man is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2020, 00:59
  #576 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by Chad Gates View Post
It doesnít help when you have a senior LH captain call into a webinar and demand a slot on the 737, then out himself on qrewroom telling everyone that heís just looking after number 1, and disputing that ďluck of draw, or right place, right timeĒ has anything to do with this industry. It was embarrassing and probably solidified the belief from most on the 737 of the arrogance and superiority the guys at the top feel they are entitled to. Looking after number 1 can work both ways, so I wouldnít expect too many on the 737 to much sympathy.
Agreed!.....and to the moron above, letís say a 10 day trip to EU is worth 55 hours, thatís 4 sectors or 4 days or 4 times to put your monkey suit on, so I would say, wearing a uniform on 15 occasions every 56 is no exaggeration, the rest of the time being spent as a paid tourist, and you still think youíre worth more!
Ruvap is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2020, 01:37
  #577 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by Ruvap View Post
Agreed!.....and to the moron above, letís say a 10 day trip to EU is worth 55 hours, thatís 4 sectors or 4 days or 4 times to put your monkey suit on, so I would say, wearing a uniform on 15 occasions every 56 is no exaggeration, the rest of the time being spent as a paid tourist, and you still think youíre worth more!
Everyone gets paid in accordance with the award. Plent of ex-SH pilots on the 380 who are (or rather were...) loving it. You sound like a douchebag.
ruprecht is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2020, 02:06
  #578 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by angryrat View Post
After all the good points you made in the Project Sunrise thread regarding sleep and hours worked, you go undo it all by criticising the LH award. The same award that you were holding up as the standard. Yes there are those amongst us who will make you shake your head, but donít go tearing everything down because of a minority.

Not criticising the LH award, and weíd all be better off but for some of those on the A380 who think the sun shines out of their arses. We will all be better off with the grounding of the A380 and hopefully the gods will not be invited back.
Ruvap is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2020, 02:08
  #579 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 38
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist View Post
Itís not based on whether you agree, or whether they intend to keep the fleet. The EBA is quite clear on when stand down can occur. FWA are pretty clear that in the case of an EBA covering a situation, they wonít interfere with it.

Union wonít need to do much, if anything. The EBA that was recently voted upon during this pandemic, stands.

Normanton, what QF would like to do, and what they can do, are very different things.

Wonít stop them trying to cut a deal to pull the wool over your eyes where they can though!

LH and SH EBAs are pretty tight - and not in QFs favour. Canít speak for the other EBAs in the group.
I think you need to re-read the EBA, particular the stand down section mate. No time limits mentioned. No useful work = stood down. Nothing that can be done about it. Good luck trying to convince the executive to spend the ďwar chestĒ on that one.
normanton is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2020, 02:13
  #580 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by Ruvap View Post
Not criticising the LH award, and weíd all be better off but for some of those on the A380 who think the sun shines out of their arses. We will all be better off with the grounding of the A380 and hopefully the gods will not be invited back.
Plenty of good blokes and gals on the A380. Who determines who these ďgodsĒ are? You? Or are you just going the nuclear option - sacking the lot to get rid of those you donít like?
Youíre starting to sound unhinged.

Last edited by ruprecht; 30th Jun 2020 at 07:14.
ruprecht is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.