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Darwin Hub

Old 9th May 2020, 10:11
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by HK144 View Post
That would be Tindal wouldn't it.
I think it is best to have two in that neck of the woods. Shift Darwin to Mt Bundy area.
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Old 9th May 2020, 10:41
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
I think it is best to have two in that neck of the woods. Shift Darwin to Mt Bundy area.
Why would they spend over a Billion redeveloping Tindal to house F35, E7 amongst others and USAF Heavies and build another base costing Billions again 2 hours up the road from Tindal to base what?
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Old 9th May 2020, 11:04
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Back in 2008 Jetstar were going to have an international hub in Darwin with seven aircraft based there as part of its Asian strategy. This fizzled out the following year over the lack of agreement with the airport authority over contractual arrangements regarding expansion of the terminal building.
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Old 9th May 2020, 12:32
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by HK144 View Post
Why would they spend over a Billion redeveloping Tindal to house F35, E7 amongst others and USAF Heavies and build another base costing Billions again 2 hours up the road from Tindal to base what?
Redundancy and training in an area that military aircraft may actually be required for military reasons (war games at Mt Bundy team A and Team B at Tindal). Tindal to Darwin or Bundy would neither be a 2 hour trip by car or aircraft.

Mount Bundy also is a current military training area, a reasonable drive from Darwin with a few better amenities than K town for the family type. I also believe the water quality is better in Bundy than K town unless the RAAF have recently rectified that.
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Old 9th May 2020, 12:43
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
Redundancy and training in an area that military aircraft may actually be required for military reasons (war games at Mt Bundy team A and Team B at Tindal). Tindal to Darwin or Bundy would neither be a 2 hour trip by car or aircraft.

Mount Bundy also is a current military training area, a reasonable drive from Darwin with a few better amenities than K town for the family type. I also believe the water quality is better in Bundy than K town unless the RAAF have recently rectified that.
It is 207KM by road from Katherine to Mt Bundy so maybe a bit longer than 2 hours; however by air, just a hop. Katherine is far enough inland to be outside of the most severe cyclones (hence the US interest) and also has ready access to Delamere (approx same distance) and Bradshaw (slightly longer. Given the time to build a facility of sufficient size, the water quality in Katherine will be a thing of the past.
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Old 9th May 2020, 13:03
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Darwin has had many airlines try it over the years.

The biggest as said when Jetstar tried the hub, what was it Singapore, Ho Chi Minh and Manila?

Way back when, Qantas dropped in from Tokyo when Japanese inbound tourism was huge.

Royal Brunei for years, Garuda, Its MyParty, Air Asia, Philippine, no doubt a few more.

Why doesn’t it work? The Darwin population is just not big enough to support it when transit traffic not there?

Apart from that it is the gateway to Asia, good for freight with the Choo Choo train up the middle.


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Old 9th May 2020, 22:31
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Rumour was that the proposed base was going to be built somewhere near Noonamah which is less that 1 hourís drive from Darwin, canít recall where I heard the rumour however the idea seemed plausible.
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Old 9th May 2020, 22:48
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by HK144 View Post
It is 207KM by road from Katherine to Mt Bundy so maybe a bit longer than 2 hours; however by air, just a hop. Katherine is far enough inland to be outside of the most severe cyclones (hence the US interest) and also has ready access to Delamere (approx same distance) and Bradshaw (slightly longer. Given the time to build a facility of sufficient size, the water quality in Katherine will be a thing of the past.
Not sure the station owners would like your imagined location.

3 h 42 min (377.8 km) via National Highway 1 - but yes a hop by air.

Katherine & a new base ( Mt Bundy near training area) and leaving Darwin for commercial use & military emergency.

Katherine is very prone to cyclones even ex cyclones at a rate of about every 20ish years, so about due another 98 was a record.

Katherine water quality has a 10 year band-aid solution of a limited quantity.
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Old 10th May 2020, 00:31
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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I would think that any government worth it's salt would be using this 'crisis' to look at what manufacturing/services must come back to it's country (onshore). What is critical to it's national interests, infrastructure.

The Darwin hub makes complete sense, why pour money into another countries (Singapore) asset? This would assume of course that Darwin airport be named as a national infrastructure asset and remain Australian or government owned. That's a massive stretch of course considering that Darwin port is foreign owned.

This philosophy does not need to be isolationist or protective trade wise, it's just saying to the world some goods and services are staying in this country.

I doubt any of this would happen of course, it requires vision, gumption and seeing beyond one electoral cycle.
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Old 10th May 2020, 02:20
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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It is great to see Pruners exercising their commonsense and thinking outside the box. Unfortunately I very much doubt that anything like that is happening elsewhere.
I have "heard" that far from contemplating leaving, the RAAF has laid acres more of concrete and built a new Control tower at Darwin - this does not sound like an organisation about to build a new base. It's more likely that the US marines will build such a base as the tempo of their pivot to Asia increases.

There is a very interesting document available on the web at <http://www.dica.org.au/wp-content/uploads/AFBaseAccessReview.pdf> that warns the RAAF about allowing access to RAAF airfields. Amongst other things it states
"Defence capability is inextricably linked to the availability of its airfields for training and, if necessary, the conduct of operations. Air Force airfields exist to support the generation, sustainment and deployment of military capability to meet Defence tasking by the Australian Government. Military use shall always have primacy at these locations. Accordingly, military activities may affect or even preclude civil aviation at Air Force airfields"

It also mentions that Darwin and Townsville work because they do not have permanent squadrons in place, and are only used for exercises and deployment. So why are they not civil aerodromes that can support military execises when needed, as is the case at Rockhampton? (There the civil controllers are quite used to handling all sorts of military aircraft, are augmented by RAAF ATCs when required and even host radar units run by the US Marine Corps from time to time.) I believe the answer lies in an ambition by the RAAF ATC wing to be the world's answer to setting up an ATC unit when needed. This was done in Baghdad and I believe offered in other places. In order to provide this they need to train their controllers to operate in civilian environments, this they do in Darwin, Townsville and Williamstown. I think that Dr Dre's comments above sum that up. So expect the RAAF to hang on to Darwin and Townsville solely to provide ATC training.
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Old 10th May 2020, 02:41
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Approach View Post
It is great to see Pruners exercising their commonsense and thinking outside the box. Unfortunately I very much doubt that anything like that is happening elsewhere.
I have "heard" that far from contemplating leaving, the RAAF has laid acres more of concrete and built a new Control tower at Darwin - this does not sound like an organisation about to build a new base. It's more likely that the US marines will build such a base as the tempo of their pivot to Asia increases.
A few months back they announced a 100 million upgrade so they can support P-8's (AIR 7000 Phase 2B) Cant see them leaving darwin anytime soon
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Old 10th May 2020, 05:24
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Remember that all theses decisions and proposals/rumours where made well before the COVID - 19 crisis.

Whatís happened in the past means nothing as much as we like to think so....

The future winners are going to be the people who can think outside of the square and not use past experiences to move forward.



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Old 10th May 2020, 08:12
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
Not sure the station owners would like your imagined location.

3 h 42 min (377.8 km) via National Highway 1 - but yes a hop by air.

Katherine & a new base ( Mt Bundy near training area) and leaving Darwin for commercial use & military emergency.

Katherine is very prone to cyclones even ex cyclones at a rate of about every 20ish years, so about due another 98 was a record.

Katherine water quality has a 10 year band-aid solution of a limited quantity.
Mate - Don't know where you are getting your mileage - Google Maps has RAAF Tindal to Mt Bundy Station as 223KM and 2h 14mim. But we are getting way off topic. I am well aware of the floods in Katherine. I have lived there. Whilst Katherine may still be exposed to the effects of cyclones, it is nowhere near as severe as Darwin. Hence the works at Tindal.
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Old 10th May 2020, 09:15
  #34 (permalink)  
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Remember that all theses decisions and proposals/rumours where made well before the COVID - 19 crisis.

What’s happened in the past means nothing as much as we like to think so....

The future winners are going to be the people who can think outside of the square and not use past experiences to move forward.
Exactly.
The world has changed. Dramatically. And in some ways permanently
Embrace change, or change will embrace you.

An expanded Darwin airport can
1. An Australian hub to Europe and Asia. May serve NZ as well as east coast and Adelaide
2. An expanded military presence.
3. Freight - connected to southern part of country by rail.

We will need infrastructure projects to get the country going. Might as well have a business case ready to go.
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Old 10th May 2020, 09:50
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by HK144 View Post
Mate - Don't know where you are getting your mileage - Google Maps has RAAF Tindal to Mt Bundy Station as 223KM and 2h 14mim. But we are getting way off topic. I am well aware of the floods in Katherine. I have lived there. Whilst Katherine may still be exposed to the effects of cyclones, it is nowhere near as severe as Darwin. Hence the works at Tindal.
From Google maps!!!!

Not the station as is your 223 km - I am talking the training area of the Mt Bundy.

My distance was a copy and paste from google maps.

I guess state of emergency and evacuations in recent years are not severe, but Darwin is a severe area as it is more coastal?

Off topic is one thing but so is off location and Katherine short falls, including RAAF induced ones.

Any aero medical ops happening out of K town these days? or are they still prohibited?
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Old 10th May 2020, 12:30
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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"3. Freight - connected to southern part of country by rail."

any freight that comes in via aircraft is high value, time dependent compared to (say) cars.

You're suggesting it be off loaded in Darwin, trucked over to the rail-yard and then spend a day or so on a train to Adelaide? From where it has to be repacked or sent on somewhere else.

I don't think that works.............
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Old 10th May 2020, 12:53
  #37 (permalink)  
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"3. Freight - connected to southern part of country by rail."

any freight that comes in via aircraft is high value, time dependent compared to (say) cars.

You're suggesting it be off loaded in Darwin, trucked over to the rail-yard and then spend a day or so on a train to Adelaide? From where it has to be repacked or sent on somewhere else.

I don't think that works.............
I am thinking exports rather than imports.

Agricultural products from rural Australia up to Darwin by rail and then freight up to Asian markets.
We can do it with lobster from Tasmania.
Why not premium agricultural products from rural Australia

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Old 10th May 2020, 13:36
  #38 (permalink)  
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Why not premium agricultural products from rural Australia
Already being/was done from Wellcamp.

Instead of Darwin, Alice Springs is the logical choice.
It is central to all the capital cities, has more local tourist potential for stopovers and no monsoon or afternoon TS.

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Old 10th May 2020, 13:39
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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It;s done from Wellcamp (Tooowoomba / west brisbane)...but could be well expanded from there..potential large growth
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Old 10th May 2020, 21:20
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fliegenmong View Post
It;s done from Wellcamp (Tooowoomba / west brisbane)...but could be well expanded from there..potential large growth
Yes I think CX is continuing the 748 freighter once or twice a week unchanged.
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