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Indigo and Virgin

Old 25th Apr 2020, 01:57
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Indigo and Virgin

I hear Bill is circling. A good time to take control. They have been loitering for years.

The Tiger brand would clearly remain under such ownership. Longer term would give them the option to increase its footprint, and for once, run by people who know what they are doing. It was Indigo who initiated the Tiger Australia launch in 2007 but lost its share in the IPO soon after.

Would enable them to sell the 737 fleet to clear the a large chunk of debt. 500 A320/1 on order.

Either they go it alone, or team up with SQ/Virgin who would have a tiny minority.

Last edited by wheels_down; 25th Apr 2020 at 02:08.
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Old 25th Apr 2020, 02:21
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*makes note to go & copyright AussieGo name under trade marks....
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 04:26
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If Virgin were to die, I think thatís where Indigo would come in, buy the below only, bring their own machines in.

Indigo would want the AOC, slots, terminals, branding, product, staff, Corp contracts, data. They wouldnít want the aircraft or engineering. They will bring their own. That would suit the admin guys, as they can sell all Boeing assets.

No doubt would get a half a billon dollar grant from one of the states with a wide range of incentives.

That Alaska/JetBlue sort of model is exactly what they would go after.

Largely the product and branding isnít the issue here. Itís the balance sheet is just screwed beyond belief.

If they canít get Virgin, Bill will want his Tiger back. A dead Virgin will result in a large window of opportunity for the leisure pax. He could send 10-20 odd Neoís downunder with a matter of months. Would be a very quick re-activation.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 04:30
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He could send 10-20 odd Neo’s downunder with a matter of months. Would be a very quick re-activation.
All good right up until the interstate travel ban, best guess is until September - October.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 04:46
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In regards to a Indigo Tiger only buyout, with a dead Virgin, September School Hols is a good time to kickstart. They would be able to pull some Neos out of Frontier to quickly start it up.

Pilots will probably need to take a Ďnew startupí pay cut 10-15% below JQ, but a job is a job.

I think itís certainly probable. They have the AOC, past Tiger ownership experience spin to bypass any government doubters, aircraft ready, Sydney slots. And Airbus Pilots at the ready.

Tourism operators will be throwing a lot of cash around to boost their numbers, as well as States throwing hundreds of millions around with bazookas to protect egos. Win Win.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 04:53
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He could send 10-20 odd Neoís downunder with a matter of months.
And crewed by whom and on what AOC? Good luck getting CASA to allow a new type flown by noone with type experience. I highly doubt that anyone from Jetstar or QF are going to resign from there to help a start up operator.

To get that to work you would have to import labour, probably another bunch of expats, whilst all the redundant Virgin Pilots are in the dole queue which isn't a good look politically. Once you have some operational experience, then CASA might let you expand and hire non rated pilots.

The only 'quick' solution operationally will be with a 737NG, anything else will take years.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 04:56
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
And crewed by whom and on what AOC? Good luck getting CASA to allow a new type flown by noone with type experience. I highly doubt that anyone from Jetstar or QF are going to resign from there to help a start up operator.

To get that to work you would have to import labour, probably another bunch of expats, whilst all the redundant Virgin Pilots are in the dole queue which isn't a good look politically. Once you have some operational experience, then CASA might let you expand and hire non rated pilots.

The only 'quick' solution operationally will be with a 737NG, anything else will take years.
Itís not a new type, itís a re-engined A320. Anyone with an A320 type rating could read the FCOM, jump in and go.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 04:56
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And crewed by whom and on what AOC? Good luck getting CASA to allow a new type flown by noone with type experience. I highly doubt that anyone from Jetstar or QF are going to resign from there to help a start up operator.
There’s a whole bunch of trained and recent Airbus pilots who have recently been made redundant and are stacking shelves, driving trucks, or sitting at home right now trying to work out what their next move will be.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 04:59
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
And crewed by whom and on what AOC? Good luck getting CASA to allow a new type flown by noone with type experience. I highly doubt that anyone from Jetstar or QF are going to resign from there to help a start up operator.

To get that to work you would have to import labour, probably another bunch of expats, whilst all the redundant Virgin Pilots are in the dole queue which isn't a good look politically. Once you have some operational experience, then CASA might let you expand and hire non rated pilots.

The only 'quick' solution operationally will be with a 737NG, anything else will take years.
Indigo, ideally, will want Tiger. And they will want that in a market without Virgin, that gives them large upside. They would only obviously buy it, if Virgin collapses, and at that time or near to. The market will view this positively, as someone is coming in to save some jobs. Virgin goes, but Tiger stays, and states they will grow bigger, is better than both going under. The tourism market is not as doomed as previous thought. ĎTiger Airways Founder saves the Pussycatí sort of pull.

They would buy the Tiger AOC and slots of the Administrators. They donít need anything else, Tiger is largely a leased and contracted business. Out of everyone sitting on Ďthe listí to buy Virgin, they are the only one who would go down this path of pursuing the LCC.

The A320 is still on the Tiger AOC. They will bring in their own leased A320s. They have 400+ on order. NEO AOC change is minimal.

The previous Tiger Airbus rated Pilots are available. They donít need to import Frontier Pilots in on reduced terms. 99% of Tiger Airbus Pilots will sign a deal tomorrow to join.

It was Indigoís call to start Tiger in 2007. They have had dialogue with the regulator here previously.

Last edited by PoppaJo; 27th Apr 2020 at 05:12.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 05:33
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And what would St Nick say about this proposal?

Liquidation

FIRB

National Interest

My hunch... The scale of operation would have to be so compelling to negate the aforementioned considerations. The sum of Virgins parts are worth less than Velocity FF. How would this proposal gain the required creditor support, let alone the Canberra suits?
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 05:41
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And crewed by whom and on what AOC? Good luck getting CASA to allow a new type flown by noone with type experience.
So you are assuming the NEO is a new type? Plenty of A320 type rated pilots were just made redundant by Tiger.

They would buy the Tiger AOC and slots of the Administrators.
For about the fifth time, it is not possible to purchase an AOC. It is possible to purchase the company that owns the AOC which then means you take on the liabilities of that company, unless there is a DOCA formulated under administration which reduces any liability as agreed by creditors.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 05:46
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Why would anyone want a NEO?

halas
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 06:11
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Originally Posted by halas View Post
Why would anyone want a NEO?

halas
Maybe a NEOCORTEX.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 06:19
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Why on earth would anyone invest in Virgin, if Indigo wants a slice of the market they can just wait for Virgin to be wrapped up and poach the parts they want before starting a new operation with No debt.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 06:34
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Originally Posted by PoppaJo View Post
99% of Tiger Airbus Pilots will sign a deal tomorrow to join.
And vastly different to the one they previously negotiated too.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 07:25
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Is this thread a joke? Are you all actually saying IndiGo would make a bid for Virgin? Anybody actually worked for IndiGo or understand old Wolfgangs grand Europe plan?

No offence but this is a pipe dream of epic proportions on many levels.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 07:31
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Originally Posted by BO0M View Post
Is this thread a joke? Are you all actually saying IndiGo would make a bid for Virgin? Anybody actually worked for IndiGo or understand old Wolfgangs grand Europe plan?

No offence but this is a pipe dream of epic proportions on many levels.
Youíre confusing IndiGo Airlines for Indigo Partners, two very separate entities.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 07:38
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For clarity who are you guys actually talking about?

IndiGo (InterGlobe Aviation) or the Parent company?
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 07:41
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Indigo Partners, an American investment company, owner of Frontier Airlines and a bunch of other low cost carriers. Zilch zip nada to do with Indigo Airlines of India.
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Old 27th Apr 2020, 10:38
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Indigo teamed up with Ryan Group in 2002 on the hunt to launch a LCC in Asia. They got SQ onboard and launched Tiger in 2004.

Now own have Frontier, Wizz, Volaris. 450 Neos on order.

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