Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Future of Jetstar

Old 28th Mar 2021, 06:05
  #161 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by John Citizen View Post

If you retrench the 100 most junior FO's, this means 100 junior captains will have to be retrained to be an FO again.
JQ EBA is pretty clear, itís at their discretion if they wish to down train and displace as seniority is ďmajor considerationĒ this clause could be argued by the unions but they would loose this one. given most 78 crew have used most of, if not not all of their leave and long service making them redundant wouldnít be all that expensive now.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 06:11
  #162 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nvfr View Post
what a well thought out rebuttal.
Mate youíre sitting around on 40% for doing nothing. I know plenty of people sitting around without even a job.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 07:35
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
Mate youíre sitting around on 40% for doing nothing. I know plenty of people sitting around without even a job.
no we arenít sitting around on 40% doing nothing. Instead of a salary now we are paid on a daily rate when we fly only. Get your facts right before jumping to conclusions.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 07:39
  #164 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
Thats just not true, Jetstar started on this weeks townhall that the Tasman will be operated 50/50 between NZ and OZ based crew with Jetstar moving most Tasman work back to NZ as aircraft become available. Some Taxman will remain in OZ as EBA Crew weíre doing a proportion of it pre covid so will retain that.

town halls mean nothing. In negotiations with NZALPA they said 3 aeroplanes have gone back to Australia therefore the Tasman will have to be flown from Australia.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 08:00
  #165 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nvfr View Post
town halls mean nothing. In negotiations with NZALPA they said 3 aeroplanes have gone back to Australia therefore the Tasman will have to be flown from Australia.
I donít know what you are reading but the latest update from NZALPA clearly says the Tasman will be flown on a 50/50 split with NZ and EBA pilots. You make it aound like the 3 aircraft were sent to OZ to fly the Tasman, they were not. They were returned to OZ to take advantage of the subsidised domestic market, a decision made assuming a Tasman bubble wasnt coming until the second half of the year. Jacindas about face caught them offguard, the NZ aircraft are due to return as the A320s from Japan arrive.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 08:22
  #166 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nvfr View Post
no we arenít sitting around on 40% doing nothing. Instead of a salary now we are paid on a daily rate when we fly only. Get your facts right before jumping to conclusions.
Are you paid on an NZ EBA? If yes, then Iím not sure as to the legality of you flying routes in Australia.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 08:36
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
Are you paid on an NZ EBA? If yes, then Iím not sure as to the legality of you flying routes in Australia.
We donít and never have flown routes in Australia. We fly domestic NZ and Tasman. However the Aussie EBA pilots do fly domestic NZ. Particularly when we are negotiating our contract.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 11:37
  #168 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Please be nice, morno.

We are all pilots here.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 20:49
  #169 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Derfred makes a good point.

Pilots fighting amongst themselves and backstabbing their own company collegues is a golden ticket for any modern day airline manager.

Game over when it gets to that poiint.

MCD.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 21:04
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ManillaChillaDilla View Post
Derfred makes a good point.

Pilots fighting amongst themselves and backstabbing their own company collegues is a golden ticket for any modern day airline manager.

Game over when it gets to that poiint.

MCD.
mate, it is at that point and has been for years. Jetstar has created groups within groups who would gladly throw others under the bus. It is happening again and again, where were the protests or action from Virgin pilota when Tiger or VAANZ were canned, where are the EBA pilots at Jetstar demanding that NZ Pilots go back to full pay, where are the A320 pilots demanding that 787 pilots get some flying or they will down tools. We dont look after each other anymore, it is each to their own, just donwhat is right for you.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 21:20
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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Ollie,

I am acutely aware of the issues at hand.

That " culture " has been fostered most carefully by experts in the field.

The real point here is that it doesnt have to be that way. It is possible for pilots to work as one for the greater good. The weak link is almost always the character of the induviduals involved.

To give up and give in to that poor example set by many is not a viable or sustainable solution. It will catch up with you somewhere around the world. Guaranteed.

Thats the australian industry unfortunately. It doesnt have to be.

MCD

Last edited by ManillaChillaDilla; 28th Mar 2021 at 22:28.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 23:49
  #172 (permalink)  
 
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The real point here is that it doesnt have to be that way. It is possible for pilots to work as one for the greater good. The weak link is almost always the character of the induviduals involved.
The old boys mates for mates clubs in this pathetic carrier and others will sort itself out, once this seemingly entitled generation cycles out.

The future is those, today, in their 20s and 30s. I have hope that they donít carry all the baggage. They will be better places to work in 20 years. We just need to cut off much of the fat first.

I hate to be horrible but thatís how I see it.


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Old 29th Mar 2021, 01:02
  #173 (permalink)  
 
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That is a very large chip displayed on your shoulder PJ. To paraphrase a well known aviation saying "Not all P%&#@ks are ex-Ansett" People are the same regardless of the airline they came from and some of the F/O's in the 20 and 30 age bracket are no different. If they are the baggage free wunderkinds you are hoping will make for better working places then you are in for a big disappointment.
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 01:47
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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The problem with this generation coming through is the same as the previous.
The majority of the good individuals (that would be great managers) have no interest in being a part of management teams.
They just want to fly then go home. Some may like to be involved in check and training etc but, they want the best lives for their family and colleagues, for the least amount of work and stress.
Management positions often attract certain types Of individuals that tend to be incompatible with the wishes of the previous group. The next generation of "managers" won't be any different... Who do you think train's them...
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 02:42
  #175 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cLeArIcE View Post
The majority of the good individuals (that would be great managers) have no interest in being a part of management teams.
We need to work on that. I donít know how, but the chance of stumbling across such a good person who actually wants to be a CP, is probably 1 in 1000. These people get discovered and taken fairly quickly.
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 09:46
  #176 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
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We have IR consultants and beancounters constantly trying to divide and conquer us because history has shown that it works.

That is what is taught at Bain and Boston Consulting, and guess what, they are the people running our IR.

That doesnít mean we have to take the bait.

No, we canít down-tools to ensure a B787 pilot keeps their job, or to ensure a NZ pilot gets paid - because thatís how the IR rules are laid down by the government that we voted for.

But we can be nice to each other here.

We can also choose not to shun the pilot from the other subsidiary in the airport, or on a car-park bus. Instead we could say, ďGíday, how was your day?Ē

And we can also choose not to undercut each other - although that one gets very tricky because the Company EA negotiators are well skilled at instilling Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (FUD) - straight out of Bain/Boston.

A classic example of how important the IR consultants consider this to be: for many years, QF spent money ensuring that QF mainline and JQ pilots never sat on the same bus together - because they might form friendships. That didnít suit the agenda.
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 12:12
  #177 (permalink)  
 
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"War is when managers tells you who the enemy is -

Revolution is when you figure it out for yourself".

Apologies to Ayn Rand
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Old 31st Mar 2021, 02:35
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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wonder what will happen with the EBA
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Old 31st Mar 2021, 04:46
  #179 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NzCaptainAndrew View Post
wonder what will happen with the EBA
Better off to put it on ice and revisit in 12-18 months when the world is ramping up and other airlines are waving cash for qualified crew.
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Old 5th Apr 2021, 23:32
  #180 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Given both unions either inability or unwillingness to effect positive change for the JQ pilot group over many years now, you would have to assume that things wont be getting better any time soon.

Personally I think JQ will be used as a test bed to try out blue sky thinking IR ideas within the group. As has been done before. In a COVID safe manner of course.

The symbyotic relationship between unions and companies will only enable this process. All under the guise of " Constructive talks ".

No comms from my union with anything substantive for the last 10 months. Thats a poor investment in my books.

MCD.
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