Race to the bottom
Fidoda
I am not upset at all. I am actually amused by your rantings, keep it up mate!
13 tons or even 20 is not a heavy. A 737 Classic at 68 tons is a MEDIUM, so a SAAB is not a heavy.
I actually knew the FO on Lockhart River. He was in my ATPL class. A good bloke but in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Another bloke in the same class died in a 310 within a few months.
Lots of people here have lost mates in aircraft crashes over the years, including myself. Don't assume that you are the only one.
Pull yer head in.
I am not upset at all. I am actually amused by your rantings, keep it up mate!
13 tons or even 20 is not a heavy. A 737 Classic at 68 tons is a MEDIUM, so a SAAB is not a heavy.
I actually knew the FO on Lockhart River. He was in my ATPL class. A good bloke but in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Another bloke in the same class died in a 310 within a few months.
Lots of people here have lost mates in aircraft crashes over the years, including myself. Don't assume that you are the only one.
Pull yer head in.
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Zanthrus,
I am going to be polite about this, but losing a mate is a little different to losing your husband of 14 years, because the system failed him. So please don't tell me to pull my head in!
The FO should never have been there, as he wasn't even approved to do that approach, and had very low hours. The company he worked for were cutting corners.
The point I'm trying to make, that this company, and I think Larrylowlevel may be on to something, is again cutting corners. How many Saab operators are there in Australia? Not too many!
Having been through such a traumatic experience, I can not stand by, and see another potential accident that could have been avoided happen again.
I am going to be polite about this, but losing a mate is a little different to losing your husband of 14 years, because the system failed him. So please don't tell me to pull my head in!
The FO should never have been there, as he wasn't even approved to do that approach, and had very low hours. The company he worked for were cutting corners.
The point I'm trying to make, that this company, and I think Larrylowlevel may be on to something, is again cutting corners. How many Saab operators are there in Australia? Not too many!
Having been through such a traumatic experience, I can not stand by, and see another potential accident that could have been avoided happen again.
Zanthrus,
I am going to be polite about this, but losing a mate is a little different to losing your husband of 14 years, because the system failed him. So please don't tell me to pull my head in!
The FO should never have been there, as he wasn't even approved to do that approach, and had very low hours. The company he worked for were cutting corners.
The point I'm trying to make, that this company, and I think Larrylowlevel may be on to something, is again cutting corners. How many Saab operators are there in Australia? Not too many!
Having been through such a traumatic experience, I can not stand by, and see another potential accident that could have been avoided happen again.
I am going to be polite about this, but losing a mate is a little different to losing your husband of 14 years, because the system failed him. So please don't tell me to pull my head in!
The FO should never have been there, as he wasn't even approved to do that approach, and had very low hours. The company he worked for were cutting corners.
The point I'm trying to make, that this company, and I think Larrylowlevel may be on to something, is again cutting corners. How many Saab operators are there in Australia? Not too many!
Having been through such a traumatic experience, I can not stand by, and see another potential accident that could have been avoided happen again.
You are aware that pilots all over the world fly in much larger aircraft than a SAAB 340 with very low experience as well?
I don’t doubt your loss was extremely difficult, but I think you’re also jumping to conclusions for which you’re not qualified to give.
Errr, I lost a spouse in a plane crash as well. It was and is traumatic but your post still makes zero sense
(notably, both crew had a lot of hours experience including military experience but still managed a CFIT)
can you at least give us something to go on here?!
(notably, both crew had a lot of hours experience including military experience but still managed a CFIT)
can you at least give us something to go on here?!
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You shouldn't assume anything!
Clearly some of the people on this forum think that there is no problem with a company charging for a course and then paying their FO's nothing!
I'll sign off and take my concerns elsewhere.
Clearly some of the people on this forum think that there is no problem with a company charging for a course and then paying their FO's nothing!
I'll sign off and take my concerns elsewhere.
And whilst I think it's immoral and wrong what is being offered, I cannot see how CASA can care about it. The type rating course is being done in Oz and presumably all above board there. The candidate pays up front for that. Nothing new or unusual there.
But the "employment" sans pay for 500 hours is undertaken in a foreign country at a "partner airline". Hardly CASA's problem nor jurisdiction. Airlines have partners all over the globe and they are not CASA's concern (unless they present some increased insolvency risk to the parent Aussie company which I doubt in this case)..
I knew the folk involved in Lockhart, and I am sorry for your loss, but if you want to attack the system to improve it (and there are many areas that it needs) I don't think this sorryemployment exploitation arrangement is the barrow to push as it's not happening in Oz.
But the "employment" sans pay for 500 hours is undertaken in a foreign country at a "partner airline". Hardly CASA's problem nor jurisdiction. Airlines have partners all over the globe and they are not CASA's concern (unless they present some increased insolvency risk to the parent Aussie company which I doubt in this case)..
I knew the folk involved in Lockhart, and I am sorry for your loss, but if you want to attack the system to improve it (and there are many areas that it needs) I don't think this sorry
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Fidoda, much appreciate your post. I imagine the details are somewhat fractured as you do not wish to reveal too much information, fair enough. It’s just a bit hard to follow the intent of your post and what your main concerns are, if we don’t have a few more of the gaps filled in. But there has certainly been too many deaths caused by shonky operators and an incompetent Regulator.
There were numerous causal factors to the Lockhart crash - organisational culture, pilot error, weather, regulations and CASA, in fact, from memory in accordance with the findings of the Hawke Taskforce, was that CASA's Regulatory Reform Program be brought to a conclusion as quickly as possible to provide certainty to industry and to ensure CASA and industry are ready to address future safety challenges. Hmmmm, that was 13 years ago and the reform program still isn’t complete and there has been subsequent serious accidents at Canley Vale, Norfolk Island, and others. It’s just a matter of time.......
There were numerous causal factors to the Lockhart crash - organisational culture, pilot error, weather, regulations and CASA, in fact, from memory in accordance with the findings of the Hawke Taskforce, was that CASA's Regulatory Reform Program be brought to a conclusion as quickly as possible to provide certainty to industry and to ensure CASA and industry are ready to address future safety challenges. Hmmmm, that was 13 years ago and the reform program still isn’t complete and there has been subsequent serious accidents at Canley Vale, Norfolk Island, and others. It’s just a matter of time.......
The really concerning thing is the requirement for a CASA licence which points towards the aircraft being VH registered.
It may be no coincidence that SEEK is advertising for various Saab drivers and management pilots. The end user appears to be Real Tonga. Tonga is not exactly flush with cash, so it is quite possible they hope to get First Officers to pay to fly while presumably spending Mummy and Daddy's money living in the country. Pilot nationality seems not important, so they may just attract desperados from the sub-continent.
Fidoda is right to be concerned about this activity, as any operation unable to pay its First Officers is likely to be taking other short cuts. But unless the aircraft are operating in Australian airspace, or on an Australian AOC, there is nothing any authority here can do about it. Even if the aircraft are VH registered, if on dry lease, it is unlikely CASA would take much interest for as long as the aircraft remained offshore.
If the operation is entirely domestic, ICAO can't touch it either, other than to black list the operator. But for that they need grounds, such as a lack of competent authority conducting the over-sight, history of accidents etc. So, Fidoda, you are wasting your time with CASA; maybe try ICAO, but I doubt you will get any action, because they have no interest in pilot exploitation matters any more than does CASA.
Fidoda is right to be concerned about this activity, as any operation unable to pay its First Officers is likely to be taking other short cuts. But unless the aircraft are operating in Australian airspace, or on an Australian AOC, there is nothing any authority here can do about it. Even if the aircraft are VH registered, if on dry lease, it is unlikely CASA would take much interest for as long as the aircraft remained offshore.
If the operation is entirely domestic, ICAO can't touch it either, other than to black list the operator. But for that they need grounds, such as a lack of competent authority conducting the over-sight, history of accidents etc. So, Fidoda, you are wasting your time with CASA; maybe try ICAO, but I doubt you will get any action, because they have no interest in pilot exploitation matters any more than does CASA.
I think the problem Fidoda is alluding to is not so much that the operator is 'unable' to pay their FOs (unlikely), but more so the experience levels of those willing to work for those who don't.
The questions which need to be answered are.....Are they really able to provide the required levels of support in a sometimes very challenging environment? or Are they literally Flap Operators?
I think we can also assume the alleged Company of reference is mentioned in post #12.
The questions which need to be answered are.....Are they really able to provide the required levels of support in a sometimes very challenging environment? or Are they literally Flap Operators?
I think we can also assume the alleged Company of reference is mentioned in post #12.
