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NSW burns but where is the 737?

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NSW burns but where is the 737?

Old 5th Dec 2019, 06:21
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NSW burns but where is the 737?

I read that the 737 Large Air Tanker canít fly because CASA have not approved it to carry firefighter pax. It will be on the ground for the entire season. Unbelievable. This is red tape gone berserk. Will CASA take responsibility for lost property and (God forbid) lost lives that otherwise may have been saved?
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 06:50
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It can still carry and drop water/retardant...

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Old 5th Dec 2019, 06:50
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Originally Posted by Lazyload View Post
I read that the 737 Large Air Tanker can’t fly because CASA have not approved it to carry firefighter pax. It will be on the ground for the entire season. Unbelievable. This is red tape gone berserk. Will CASA take responsibility for lost property and (God forbid) lost lives that otherwise may have been saved?
Not quite.... It cannot carry firefighters from A to B. It can only carry the water and retardant and essential crew (eg pilots loadmaster etc). No pax.

Big difference. The red tape of which you speak prevents the aircraft which probably does not meet passenger certification requirements due to the nature of its modifications from carrying what would be non essential pax.
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 07:15
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Itís a fire bombing machine not a passenger transport vessel.

Plenty of GA charters ferrying everyone around inland. Most just fly airline ops. I had a group of 40 a few weeks back ML-SY.

Its usually easier to put to put them on airline ops. Melbourne to Sydney flight every 15/30mins.

Who should be moving them about is the Air Force with all these big A330s that sit around doing sweet F All. Too much procedural military bull$hit makes it easier to dump them on a loco.

Last edited by PoppaJo; 5th Dec 2019 at 07:30.
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 07:15
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Essential service should go free of charge on any major.
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 07:22
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When minutes count, CASA take months...
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 07:36
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I have read that CASA want flight attendants on board due to the number of passengers being carried. Can only assume under the N rego this was not an issue.
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 07:39
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
I have read that CASA want flight attendants on board due to the number of passengers being carried. Can only assume under the N rego this was not an issue.
In the US itís 1 flight attendant per 50 pax.
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 07:45
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A lot of firies have been chartered on regional flights in the past months. Great for getting them closer to some of the fires. So in the end, probably better to let the 737 continue bombing instead of paxing.
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 09:15
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Big picture. Men going to fight fires and risk their lives, What are the odds that they will get hurt on the way in the back of the fire fighting maggot because itís not airline standard? Have a look at the way soldiers travel in the back of mil tpt on ops.
CASA and Oz appear rooted.
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 09:27
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In the US it’s 1 flight attendant per 50 pax.
As it is for approved pax ops here, Havick, in big jets, what's more!

Originally Posted by Lazyload
It will be on the ground for the entire season. Unbelievable.
"On the ground" or "can't carry pax"?
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 09:33
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The Air Force has been transporting fire fighters around, and the 737 has been doing plenty of water bombing. Whereís the problem?
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 10:23
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Surely the Rural Fire Service would have fully investigated the possibility of pax carriage on this 737 before they signed on the dotted line? Itís a tad unfair to blame CASA.
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 11:09
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Would the B747 Air Tanker assist, why not bring it to Aussie?

Surely the B747 air tanker would make a worthwhile addition to the fire fighting effort.
Is there an existing Operator that would host the operator and assist with any CASA issues?.
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 11:54
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(VERY offtop)

I'm a huge fan of finding non-passenger/cargo use for old airplanes, but... They seriously named it the Large Air Tanker? It's literally the SMALLEST jet-powered firebomber in the world!!! By that logic, Il-76 would be the Giant Air Tanker, the DC-10 fire bomber would be the DC-10 Humongous Air Tanker, and Boeing 747 Supertanker would be the Boeing 747 Big-Ay Air Tanker. Or maybe just call it the Compared-to-what Air Tanker?

And an on-topic.
Originally Posted by Ken Borough View Post
It’s a tad unfair to blame CASA.
It's NEVER unfair to blame CASA even if, in this particular case, they aren't really doing anything blame-worthy... Or are they?
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 11:56
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It has been very busy for a long time, and will continue to be. Good job getting offended on Chinese whispers.

theyíre are also Hercs, RJs and the VLAT too. All operational.
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 12:38
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saw the 737 and Canadian Bae 146 working at Coffs a week or two ago. I came up by Qantas link charter and back to Vic by RAAF C17. It’s all working as it should. Latest advice is that the work is very hard right now. More teams went up today. May go again late next week if wife permits and fire situation calls for it. But that’s scraping the bottom of the barrel.
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 15:39
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The 737 has been flying just about every day all day long dropping retardant. People that are all bent out of shape that it isn’t carrying passengers don’t realize that you would have to remove it from the retardant dropping missions in order to transport passengers and it is much easier to use standard commercial transports instead. Right now Oz has the DC-10, the 737, a couple of C-130s, and an RJ that are flying retardant and removing the 737 from that role would have a large impact on the amount of retardant being dropped.

The pax outcry is based on either incomplete information or a lack of understanding of the process to get the 737 approved for passenger transport. When the airplane got its FAA certification, it included a 72 passenger standard interior. The contract that NSW has with the operator doesn’t include cabin personnel so that is something that will have to be sorted before CASA will issue a passenger carrying certificate. It’s only a question of time.
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 19:10
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Originally Posted by Lazyload View Post
I read that the 737 Large Air Tanker canít fly because CASA have not approved it to carry firefighter pax.
Ironically, this is just a huge beat up.

​​​​
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 20:26
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https://www.boeing.com/news/frontier...st/i_ids4.html

Shame we donít use this system, excellent real world training/currency for our RAAFies.
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