Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

QF 380 Issues

Old 27th Nov 2019, 21:58
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 53
Posts: 1,928
Hopefully no management bonuses will be adversely affected by this little glitch!

Stationair8 is offline  
Old 27th Nov 2019, 23:49
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 439
Bonuses will be affected ! By the time costs are counted ( add on administrative fees ) loss of income and damage to reputation the claim against manufacturers will bring a tidy profit and performance bonuses will reflect it nicely .
Toruk Macto is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2019, 07:23
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: At the OMT
Posts: 130
Originally Posted by Bad Adventures View Post
OQF stuck in Singapore until Dec 1 awaiting a new engine. You’d think SQ would have a few spare donks sitting around.
Not heard of an engine being in the IATA Pool (if QF-SQ have a pool agreement) as a loan item due to engine lease and/or ownership constraints, and even if it was it would be a pretty expensive exercise to do an engine change for one sector, take it off the wing and then pay overhaul/re-certification costs when sending it back to SQ.

On the other hand, RR have a service centre in Singapore, but maybe their spare has been used too.
Tom Sawyer is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2019, 09:10
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 370
Waiting for a Black Friday deal probably
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2019, 10:18
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Does it matter
Posts: 102
Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
Waiting for a Black Friday deal probably
L O L !!!!
whatever6719 is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2019, 10:44
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... Still!
Posts: 3,386
Power by the hour....

Outsourced engines.
So it’s up to RR to get another engine on the wing!
Capt Fathom is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2019, 18:41
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 230
Originally Posted by Capt Fathom View Post
So it’s up to RR to get another engine on the wing!
So how’s that working out for Air NZ? They will have as many as 4 787s AoG as of January. Rolls Royce kicking goals everywhere!
Slezy9 is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2019, 21:16
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,560
Originally Posted by Slezy9 View Post


So how’s that working out for Air NZ? They will have as many as 4 787s AoG as of January. Rolls Royce kicking goals everywhere!
To the spreadsheet driven idiots it saves expense.
That is to say it looks fine on paper, generates short term focus for short term incentives.
Longer term it is another expensive error, knowing the price of everything yet the cost of nothing is an extremely short sighted way to run a long term business.
Rated De is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2019, 21:47
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Equatorial
Age: 46
Posts: 518
Power by the hour, rented bits on wings...

Ok so your saying if QF still had an engine shop they would have a spare modular unit ready to go? Would Air NZ have oh I don’t know say 8 engines ready to go?

You do seem very angry at airline management RD however there some arguments that are not quiet balanced.

I am not advocating out sourcing everything.

There are plenty of airliners sitting around waiting for horses to be put back on the wings!
Global Aviator is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2019, 22:15
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 439
Maybe if they had of kept their engine shop the engine would not have failed ? Maybe if they still had all those knowlagble engine people they could repair other people’s engines ?
Who knows but many big companies are moving away from short term bonuses , they don’t work long term ( like closing down engineering depts in airlines )
Toruk Macto is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2019, 22:57
  #31 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 147
Engine arrived over night from Sydney on an SQ freighter.
Bad Adventures is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2019, 00:58
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 64
Posts: 2,464
While there may be many things to criticize about the way Qantas is being run, I don't think "Power by the Hour" qualifies. Large parts of the industry are moving to Power by the Hour - and the engine companies are encouraging it for a number of reasons. First of all, it greatly simplifies spares - when the engine company owns the spares it can locate them strategically all over the world, so that when you need an engine in a hurry there is likely one close by, instead of at the operators home base which may be halfway across the globe. Plus if an operator has a run of bad luck, they won't run out of engines while another operator has three or four sitting unused. The current generation of on-board engine monitoring equipment downloads real time (or at worse at the end of every flight) - and the engine companies process that with fancy computer algorithms that can predict failures before they happen and alert the operator they need to get an engine off-wing before it actually fails. Preventive maintenance is nearly always cheaper than waiting until failure, and getting an engine off-wing prior to failure is an obvious benefit for ETOPS.
If just scratching the surface of why Power by the Hour makes good sense for many operators - especially those with smaller fleets.
tdracer is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2019, 01:39
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 574
The current generation of on-board engine monitoring equipment downloads real time (or at worse at the end of every flight) - and the engine companies process that with fancy computer algorithms that can predict failures before they happen and alert the operator they need to get an engine off-wing before it actually fails.
In this case, unfortunately, this did not happen. My understanding is even after the engine failed to start, Rolls Royce could not offer any data that pointed to the cause of the failure. There were none of the parameter shifts that indicate a pending or existing problem. Thus a period of troubleshooting, including a boro, was necessary before the evidence lead to the requirement to replace the donk.
C441 is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2019, 02:03
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 439
The engine goes into an engine shop when it comes off the wing . Why can’t that engine shop be in Australia ? Qantas in partnership with engine manufacturers can run engine maintenance/ repair .
Having power by the hour may be cheapest and generate more profit for investors and provide a bonus to certain managers but we as a industry gain nothing . I can hand my savings to professionals to manage , on paper I’m getting richer but I learn nothing and become reliant on them .
what happens if we fall out with trading partners ? Call me old fashioned but better to invest in self sufficiency.

Last edited by Toruk Macto; 29th Nov 2019 at 02:40.
Toruk Macto is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2019, 02:17
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,532
​​​​​TDracer, I see you’ve read the commercial about “power by the hour”. I suspect the reality is slightly different based on my own experience.

In particular the bit about strategically placed spares, RR have bean counters too and they probably don’t like the idea of spare engines sitting around at remote airports either. Furthermore there is the question of the modification status of each module - this doesn’t always go with that, the question of matching life limits on modules to avoid frequent engine changes, and of course if it’s a generic spare, it would have to be “dressed” to suit the aircraft customisation.

I love the idea, but I suspect the reality is different.
Sunfish is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2019, 03:22
  #36 (permalink)  
VC9
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 56
Thankfully RD and numerous other people on this forum do not run the airline that I work for.
VC9 is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2019, 04:04
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 64
Posts: 2,464
Originally Posted by Toruk Macto View Post
The engine goes into an engine shop when it comes off the wing . Why can’t that engine shop be in Australia ? Qantas in partnership with engine manufacturers can run engine maintenance/ repair .


When you're talking a small fleet of aircraft/engines, it simply isn't cost effective for an operator to have a dedicated engine shop for a small number of engines. Twelve A380s, so 48 engines plus a few spares is simply too small a fleet - unless you're talking a joint venture with a few other A380/Trent operators to get up to a reasonable number of engines (at least 100), the fixed costs become killer.

Sunfish, I'm not over familiar with the Rolls power by the hour programs - nearly all my experience was with GE. But my experience with the GE program was rather impressive. They have algorithms to determine how many spare engines they need based on the fleet size, age, and utilization - and where to park them to make sure a spare is nearby when needed.
The engine monitoring routines are good, but they are not perfect. Used properly, they can and do reduce the number of engine related issues - including shutdowns - but they won't catch everything. St. Murphy is very difficult to predict.
tdracer is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2019, 04:24
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 439
Is it worth having a small fleet ? Small population ? Where does it finish . If you wanted to make money then give all the 380’s to China southern and let their economies of scale keep costs down . Can’t beat Chinese wages for pilots , engineers and they probably get RR to answer on first ring .
Keep them in Qantas colours but operated by China southern on the side .
they will increase the price each year , priories their operation and we forget how to fly .
but lots of short term bonuses and profit for investors .
Toruk Macto is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2019, 04:36
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wellington
Posts: 179
Originally Posted by VC9 View Post
Thankfully RD and numerous other people on this forum do not run the airline that I work for.
...as opposed to an Airline that sell everything for short term selective gain (KPI's), lines the pockets of those in upper management and the CEO asks for wage freezes whilst lining his pockets with $100 million dollars...
If you are deluded in thinking anything done by current management has be designed for the Long Term Restructuring and Long Term Viability of Qantas, then pity on you.
Street garbage is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2019, 04:43
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 439
Centre of excellence , we got some of the best people . Take some vision and give up short term thinking , results would be after my time and senior managements . We want to be the smart country not paying one man $$$$ and aircraft stuck all over the place relying on lowest bidder to get around to it .
coat hat long walk time .
Toruk Macto is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.