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Mt Cook and Air Nelson contract

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Mt Cook and Air Nelson contract

Old 11th Sep 2019, 21:19
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Mt Cook and Air Nelson contract

New contract tabled combining the two airlines into one. General concensus seems barely contained glee for the Nelson pilots and barely suppressed rage among the Cook boys and girls. How are those affected feeling about this?

Last edited by clemfandango; 11th Sep 2019 at 22:54. Reason: Grammar.
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 02:44
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Originally Posted by clemfandango View Post
New contract tabled combining the two airlines into one. General concensus seems barely contained glee for the Nelson pilots and barely suppressed rage among the Cook boys and girls. How are those affected feeling about this?
I think it depends which ATR driver you ask. I think its decent, contract protections are well worth a small trade off in transport allowance etc. The term B scale has been thrown around, which shows a lack of understanding of the concept. A B scale salary would never have the possibility of increasing to the grandfathered ATR rate with the fleet changes adjusting the blended rate. What are your thoughts on it?
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 04:58
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I think it’s bloody good!
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 09:19
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I’m no longer in the Link group but as an outsider looking in I find it hard to understand what the benefits are for the Pilots to combine the seniority lists. Can someone please explain what they are? Does big brother think it will help retain the Link Pilots with the promise of a jet job in the future (new course plan came out a few weeks back and everything is slowing down big time). With the issues the training department are having with the guys coming across to fly the jets there will soon be a sim ride and interview to assess suitability again.
If I was a new joiner today, I’d get my time up on the ATR/Dash and jump to Virgin/Jetstar/JetConnect for a bit of experience then back to AirNZ. I understand there is a stand down period if you go that avenue but I’m pretty sure you’d get an interview well before your number comes up on the jets. Average retirements per year is currently 20-30 a year. How many years is it for a new joiner til they get to pole around a 320 or become a S/O on a wide body. Do the maths. Good luck.
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 10:08
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Swine lips.

Seems like classic divide and rule to me. Air NSN clearly frothing at all the gains and the Cook guys feeling gypped at their own meagre increases(losses in some cases) after months of showy promises. Bedlam if it doesn’t go through. I saw the contract today and it most certainly is a b scale obfuscated with some ‘blended’ bullshit that might take years to get in the ballpark. You’d be ripping off future hires no matter how you sell it to yourself. Lipstick on a swine.
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 23:11
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Originally Posted by fly real fast View Post
I’m no longer in the Link group but as an outsider looking in I find it hard to understand what the benefits are for the Pilots to combine the seniority lists. Can someone please explain what they are? Does big brother think it will help retain the Link Pilots with the promise of a jet job in the future (new course plan came out a few weeks back and everything is slowing down big time). With the issues the training department are having with the guys coming across to fly the jets there will soon be a sim ride and interview to assess suitability again.
If I was a new joiner today, I’d get my time up on the ATR/Dash and jump to Virgin/Jetstar/JetConnect for a bit of experience then back to AirNZ. I understand there is a stand down period if you go that avenue but I’m pretty sure you’d get an interview well before your number comes up on the jets. Average retirements per year is currently 20-30 a year. How many years is it for a new joiner til they get to pole around a 320 or become a S/O on a wide body. Do the maths. Good luck.
The benefit is becoming employed by Air NZ. It’s that simple. Both the Nelson and Cook AOC’s are going to Air NZ in Nov and early next year. Without merging into one regional group within Air NZ both airlines will operate under service agreements with Air NZ aka contractors aka Jetconnect.

The career pathways initiative is definitely just a showpiece from the company to stop regional pilots leaving the group and only benefiting a certain few as it currently is. Some of which are treating it as a holiday and subsequently failing the training.
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 23:19
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Originally Posted by clemfandango View Post
Seems like classic divide and rule to me. Air NSN clearly frothing at all the gains and the Cook guys feeling gypped at their own meagre increases(losses in some cases) after months of showy promises. Bedlam if it doesn’t go through. I saw the contract today and it most certainly is a b scale obfuscated with some ‘blended’ bullshit that might take years to get in the ballpark. You’d be ripping off future hires no matter how you sell it to yourself. Lipstick on a swine.
You clearly can’t be a fan if you’re not with either airline but have started a PPRuNe account to post about the contract.

I don’t know which ‘Cook’ guys you’re talking to but is definitely not the only view held within the ranks. The guys who have been around a while clearly stated we want more time at home and roster/contract improvements. Has that occurred? Well you have the contract. I’m sure you can make your mind up.

Have you noticed who the new hires are going to be? Did you read the bit about ‘graduate pilots’? Once that’s approved by CAA, thats where the vast majority will be coming from. Do you have an issue with the remuneration that they’ll receive for the first year or so?
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Old 14th Sep 2019, 00:13
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Originally Posted by KiwiAvi8er View Post


The benefit is becoming employed by Air NZ. It’s that simple. Both the Nelson and Cook AOC’s are going to Air NZ in Nov and early next year. Without merging into one regional group within Air NZ both airlines will operate under service agreements with Air NZ aka contractors aka Jetconnect.

The career pathways initiative is definitely just a showpiece from the company to stop regional pilots leaving the group and only benefiting a certain few as it currently is. Some of which are treating it as a holiday and subsequently failing the training.


Aren't Mount Cook and Air Nelson subsidiaries atm anyway? Very much like Jetconnect?
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Old 14th Sep 2019, 00:43
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I haven’t seen the contract, only the new payscales, and I do think it’s a bit strange to have a blended rate. At Air New Zealand, we have a blended rate on the 777 to allow for -200/300 variants, the same will most likely occur for the 787 when we operate both -9&10 variants. This is because Pilots on type actually operate all variants. We don’t, for example, blend the A320 rates with Widebody rates just because they’re on the same AOC, so why do it for the links?

I appreciate there’s a bit of a first day lottery between fleets when joining the regionals but the same is true at Air New Zealand. If there’s a combined regional seniority list, then surely pilots can move between fleets as vacancies and seniority allows?
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Old 14th Sep 2019, 04:27
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What good can possibly come from merging the lists.
Now watch some old mate lodge a PG that they are senior enough for a 777 command because they have been employed by "Air New Zealand" for the last 20 years and a judge siding with them.
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Old 14th Sep 2019, 04:29
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Originally Posted by fly real fast View Post
understand there is a stand down period if you go that avenue but I’m pretty sure you’d get an interview well before your number comes up on the jets. Average retirements per year is currently 20-30 a year. How many years is it for a new joiner til they get to pole around a 320 or become a S/O on a wide body. Do the maths. Good luck.
For someone across the pond currently going through the interview process (I'm aware where this question is being asked), what sort of time period are we talking about for progressing to a jet from link?

Sure a jet is not the be all to end all, but at the same time it's nice to know what could be given time.
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Old 14th Sep 2019, 07:58
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Originally Posted by dctPub View Post
What good can possibly come from merging the lists.
Now watch some old mate lodge a PG that they are senior enough for a 777 command because they have been employed by "Air New Zealand" for the last 20 years and a judge siding with them.
Given the "success" of said "seniors" in the flight librarian role, how do you think they'd go direct into the left seat?
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Old 14th Sep 2019, 11:52
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Originally Posted by Icemansteeve View Post
For someone across the pond currently going through the interview process (I'm aware where this question is being asked), what sort of time period are we talking about for progressing to a jet from link?

Sure a jet is not the be all to end all, but at the same time it's nice to know what could be given time.

Over 10 years if you join the links now to be a second officer on the jet
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Old 14th Sep 2019, 20:26
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The ad says type rated dash and ATR pilots. No mention of time on type. So they want you to pay for your own rating? Or are they just trying to poach people from Qlink and Virgin?
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Old 14th Sep 2019, 20:44
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Originally Posted by dctPub View Post
What good can possibly come from merging the lists.
Now watch some old mate lodge a PG that they are senior enough for a 777 command because they have been employed by "Air New Zealand" for the last 20 years and a judge siding with them.
They wouldn’t have a wide body command yet. Current crop of 787 skips have been 24 years! Your point is noted though

Last edited by fly real fast; 14th Sep 2019 at 21:32.
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Old 14th Sep 2019, 21:51
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Originally Posted by fly real fast View Post


They wouldn’t have a wide body command yet. Current crop of 787 skips have been 24 years! Your point is noted though
Not to mention FRF, that it’s a merging of the regional lists only...
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 04:30
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Originally Posted by wantobe View Post
Aren't Mount Cook and Air Nelson subsidiaries atm anyway? Very much like Jetconnect?
Very much like Jetconnect until Jetconnect transferred their ‘feet’ of 737’s to Qantas and switched to VH rego’s. They’re no longer a subsidiary airline but solely employ pilots and flight attendants to operate Qantas services. Not in either Cook or Nelson’s interest to replicate that.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 04:49
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Originally Posted by dctPub View Post
What good can possibly come from merging the lists.
Now watch some old mate lodge a PG that they are senior enough for a 777 command because they have been employed by "Air New Zealand" for the last 20 years and a judge siding with them.

A few can’t even get through the IPT let alone pass a Jet command check, I don’t think we need to worry
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 05:30
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Originally Posted by captsf View Post



A few can’t even get through the IPT let alone pass a Jet command check, I don’t think we need to worry
You’re right. No need to worry. You’ll know as well as anyone that the seniority between Jet and Regional isn’t merging, nor was that ever proposed. Added to the bottom was the initial aim.

I believe Air NZ ALPA members are shortly voting on an amendment to the CEA which tightens the wording to prevent the thought of any such PG. But we won’t let that get in the way of a good yarn....

Last edited by KiwiAvi8er; 16th Sep 2019 at 02:58. Reason: Typo
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 22:08
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Looks like your effort was a failure clemfandango....
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