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More 787s for QF

Old 14th Aug 2019, 06:18
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More 787s for QF

Anyone in the know if QF will be ordering more 787s and if so how many more will be needed to meet these new routes they will be flying on.

I think the 787 will catapult QF international to new heights (pun intended) never seen before, with point to point travel becoming more prevalent, QF have an opportunity to dominate in a market no overseas airlines can compete in. Surely it would make sense to get more frames?
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 06:25
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Taking emotion away, they have a third simulator coming that means a minimum of 36 airframes I would say and also they have 35 options at a price that I believe will never be repeated of which only 14 have been delivered or ordered.Will it be an increase in aircraft numbers is the question I would be asking as the 330 is going to need replacing in the years to come and the 787 could be that aircraft.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 07:14
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Originally Posted by dragon man View Post
Taking emotion away, they have a third simulator coming that means a minimum of 36 airframes I would say and also they have 35 options at a price that I believe will never be repeated of which only 14 have been delivered or ordered.Will it be an increase in aircraft numbers is the question I would be asking as the 330 is going to need replacing in the years to come and the 787 could be that aircraft.
Middle distillates have been a little expensive in the last while, as refining capacity in the US was switched to shale (which is much lighter) than WTI. As a result there were rather large spreads in Jet fuel prices (localised) for an extended period. With demand forecast to continue ebbing lower, some pricing pressure has been removed. Perhaps a brief respite, perhaps not, there are certain other geo-political problems. Any of which can put immediate pressure on operating expense.
With Boeing's "current preoccupations" it would make sense, as the A330 is at best mid life that a fleet plan be executed.

However, sense and fleet planning at Fort Fumble are rarely in the same room.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 07:19
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The most important thing at Qantas in my opinion is how few pieces of eight do we have to throw the pilot group to further rape their conditions, however that is off subject.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 08:27
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QF have an opportunity to dominate in a market no overseas airlines can compete in
No other airlines fly B787s to/from Australia?
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 08:53
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Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was View Post
No other airlines fly B787s to/from Australia?
I think what he is alluding to is that under first and second freedom rights only the departure country and destination country have automatic rights for direct flights, the likes of SingAir, Emirates etc operate on 5th and 6th freedom rights which means they have to stop in their own country and canít fly for example Syd direct London.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 09:14
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Dragon Man

Sorry, I don’t mean to sound like a pussy but using a rape analogy in this context is offensive and unnecessary.

i have been involved in industrial negotiations and there is plenty of scope for “robust” discussion and some emotional rhetoric, but FFS Qantas pilots are well compensated professionals.

By all means have a crack at the company for reducing your conditions if you feel the need but 1. Don’t forget you are well compensated in real terms compared to the vast majority of the Australian population and 2. If you don’t like the package you are presented with there are clearly a number of opportunities in China as my email inbox will attest to, particularly for 330 and 777/787 crews.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 09:20
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Difficult to see QF setting the world on fire in the future. The opportunity was lost many years ago.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 09:39
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QF have an opportunity to dominate in a market no overseas airlines can compete in
Well not really. For every pairing the overseas airline could run a similar (or better) type the other way. So a UK airline could run UK to Perth. Or a US airline could run direct to BN or SYD. If overseas airlines see a market to exploit they will.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 09:51
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QF won't dominate anything with the 787. They'll need something bigger.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 09:54
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
Well not really. For every pairing the overseas airline could run a similar (or better) type the other way. So a UK airline could run UK to Perth. Or a US airline could run direct to BN or SYD. If overseas airlines see a market to exploit they will.
Correct, however they or Qantas have to get the aircraft that have the range so far Qantas is the only carrier showing any interest and judging by the the load factors and yield on Perth to London they think they are on a winner.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 10:18
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Originally Posted by dragon man View Post


Correct, however they or Qantas have to get the aircraft that have the range so far Qantas is the only carrier showing any interest and judging by the the load factors and yield on Perth to London they think they are on a winner.
Yeah, I agree. There are very few airlines that operate as many longhaul or ULH flights, as a proportion of their network, as Qantas. That means that Qantas can readily purchase and configure its fleet for ULH operations without handicapping itself for shorter flights (e.g. transatlantic, intra-Asia etc.), allowing it to compete more strongly on those routes.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 10:49
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1. Don’t forget you are well compensated in real terms compared to the vast majority of the Australian population
Sorry you can't run that line with pilots as the vast majority of the Australian Population do not have the working conditions of pilots. Quite simply how many of the 'majority of Australian Population' surrender to a medical exam and the ability to get fired every 3/6 months?? Being a pilot in any airline is no way comparable to any 'normal' job where you go home every night. Just go and ask the majority of the Australian Population to go to work on a Sunday for no extra pay and see what reaction you get. Meanwhile pilots all over Australia do that every week.

But point number you are spot on.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 10:49
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Originally Posted by PlasticFantastic View Post
Yeah, I agree. There are very few airlines that operate as many longhaul or ULH flights, as a proportion of their network, as Qantas. That means that Qantas can readily purchase and configure its fleet for ULH operations without handicapping itself for shorter flights (e.g. transatlantic, intra-Asia etc.), allowing it to compete more strongly on those routes.
​​​​​​
Exactly, this is what I was alluding to. For many other airlines this wouldn't be as advantageous as it is for Qantas, hence my comment.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 11:09
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As a Brit on Holiday in Perth at the moment, great city by the way, may I butt in and ask a question?. BA currently do not operate London - Perth, however as they also have B787-9 (seat cap 216) what is stopping them?, cost / profit comes into it but if Qantas B787-9 (seat Cap 234 ) can presumably make it pay, is there another reason??
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 11:25
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
Sorry you can't run that line with pilots as the vast majority of the Australian Population do not have the working conditions of pilots. Quite simply how many of the 'majority of Australian Population' surrender to a medical exam and the ability to get fired every 3/6 months?? Being a pilot in any airline is no way comparable to any 'normal' job where you go home every night. Just go and ask the majority of the Australian Population to go to work on a Sunday for no extra pay and see what reaction you get. Meanwhile pilots all over Australia do that every week.

But point number you are spot on.
Ohh cry me a river. What about nurses, firefighters, etc. Pilots arenít the only ones to work weekends. The well above average remuneration covers that weekend/public holiday work, and if youíre fearing for your career every 3/6 months maybe you should get another job.

Iím not saying it shouldnít be nothing, but youíre already doing pretty bloody well boys.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 11:26
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Originally Posted by Kiltrash View Post
As a Brit on Holiday in Perth at the moment, great city by the way, may I butt in and ask a question?. BA currently do not operate London - Perth, however as they also have B787-9 (seat cap 216) what is stopping them?, cost / profit comes into it but if Qantas B787-9 (seat Cap 234 ) can presumably make it pay, is there another reason??
QF have really good utilisation with the frame on the route. It essentially flies from the US, to Melbourne, PER then LHR. Itís roughly 6 frames for that rotation.

Quite simply itís a thin route that QF are making work with domestic feed.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 12:32
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Quite simply it’s a thin route that QF are making work with domestic feed.


That the net seat reduction per flight is in excess 245 means that the Load Factor is high.
Shrinking to growth!
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 12:53
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Originally Posted by morno View Post


Ohh cry me a river. What about nurses, firefighters, etc. Pilots arenít the only ones to work weekends. The well above average remuneration covers that weekend/public holiday work, and if youíre fearing for your career every 3/6 months maybe you should get another job.

Iím not saying it shouldnít be nothing, but youíre already doing pretty bloody well boys.
Well tell them to lob an application in. What the rest of the population earn is irrelevant to aviation, as much as it is to pediatrics, or firemen.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 13:13
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Originally Posted by Blueskymine View Post


QF have really good utilisation with the frame on the route. It essentially flies from the US, to Melbourne, PER then LHR. Itís roughly 6 frames for that rotation.

Quite simply itís a thin route that QF are making work with domestic feed.
Also, I'm not sure whether BA would get good yields from its First cabin on the route, so it might actually not be as good a money maker.
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