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Virgin and the China connection

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Virgin and the China connection

Old 27th Jul 2019, 03:40
  #1 (permalink)  
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Virgin and the China connection

An in-depth report, of the kind that is lacking from mainstream media. Investigative Reporter Michael West has a good track record.
The report makes a case that’s Virgin PR is at odds with reality.

Dick Smith “dumfounded” by reports of potential Chinese involvement in training airbase.
Virgin 40% owned by Chinese. Federal, State and Local government reported as being in the dark about future ownership of the base.

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/mayda...alian-airbase/

Last edited by mickjoebill; 27th Jul 2019 at 11:26.
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 04:03
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No real surprises that Dick Smith’s name is associated with a China scaremongering article.

This article loses any credibility when it refers to Tamworth Airport as an ‘airbase’, and describes it as a “specialised military training facility”. It’s hardly specialised, it’s taking ab initio students up to a basic CPL level. And as of this year, it won’t even be a “specialised military training facility”, it’ll just be a bunch of empty buildings at a civilian airport, hardly a unique situation in Australia.
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 04:11
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With respect, it is a load of shit

tamworth as a defence base? Seriously?

As as for Dick smith being dumbfounded? That really doesn’t take much. All that crap about the franking credits. What a load of self aggrandizing nonsense.

Its not like the virgin academy, if anything actually comes of it, is going to be parked across the taxiway from Area 51.

dick says he thought virgin was australian owned. I don’t know if it was poorly worded but seriously even my aged mother-in-law knows that virgin is not australian owned with Singapore, hainan, nanshan, Etihad and virgin group as significant owners.

sensationalist reporting and nonsense like this does nothing except spread fear and hysteria amongst those that know little to nothing of the realities of the global aviation.

I truly despair at times.



Last edited by Snakecharma; 27th Jul 2019 at 07:15.
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 05:23
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It won't even matter if Virgin don't follow through.

As Bae wind down Cae and AIA are cranking up. Activity sounds about the same and aussie accents are few and far between already.
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 05:39
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Virgin I thought was Aussie-owned but in fact it’s pretty well completely foreign-owned and it looks like it is completely Chinese government controlled,” Mr Smith said. “I am desperately worried about aviation and for this to be done secretly is just unbelievable.”
Dick oh Dick...
You thought....or what you really mean... I wish they were aussie owned?

Chinese running Virgin.

The Chairwoman has a questionable amount of input let alone anyone in China. It’s a one man show. PS wants, PS gets.
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 07:14
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Poppa - can’t be any worse than JWI - John wants it.

JWI blew any logic or business sense out of the water
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 10:09
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I actually don’t know where to start with that article.....

By reading it anyone would think that the the defence facility at Tamworth houses multiple squadrons of F18s and F35s and that it’s pivotal to the nation’s defense. Excuse me as I roll my eyes in the knowledge that the only thing that flys there on behalf of the defence force are CT4s. And obviously the defence force doesn’t care particularly about this as they contract the work out to civilian operators in the form of BAE.

Again the article seems to suggest that the Chinese are running the defence force out of town - again BAE at Tamworth lost the contract and all RAAF ab-initio training is going to be conducted at East Sale. So no flying training will be conducted at Tamworth from October 31.

Except the article fails to mention that CAE have opened up a satellite operation to add to their already significant amounts of flying they do at Moorabbin. And would it shock anyone to know that CAE’s major clients are....Chinese airline cadets. In addition to this it is probably worth mentioning that a significant number of the major flying schools in Australia have contracts with overseas (and most are significantly Chinese) airlines.

So here is what I can’t fathom - where does all this scaremongering about Chinese airline students come from and why? When people of the likes of Dick Smith are complaining about the demise of GA in this country - how can he then go and get all up and about when there is the possibility of a major GA flying school about to commence operations. When the likes of Barnaby Joyce are complaining about the demise of rural towns (and shifting large government departments to these towns) - how can they be possibly complaining about this flying school going ahead. The school is going to be training airline pilots - not Chinese military pilots who are going to learn the secrets of Australian Defence Force aviation. Do these people need to be reminded of the significant benefits that a flying school like this could bring to a regional centre like Tamworth - especially considering the RAAF have elected to stop basic training being carried out there? Here is a tip, go and ask the communities of Mildura (Pearson’s- training Chinese cadets), Ballarat (Singapore Training Academy - training Chinese cadets), Wagga (Rex training academy), etc how they feel about the increased business that these schools have brought to those regional centres.

To train 500 students a year you would need close to 100 staff (flying instructors, engineers, refuellers, etc, etc). The amount of money (read jobs) that this would bring into the town is significant. And this is also the same reason you had multiple regional cities bidding for the Qantas training academy - because businesses like this breed jobs. And on a side note, Qantas have said that they want to not only train Australian pilots, but foreign airline pilots as well (queue the outrage). They have said they want 500 pilots a year - and it won’t take three guesses where a lot of those foreign pilots will be from.

I get a little sick and tired of Virgin having the boots sunk into it because of its ownership structure. Virgin is majority foreign owned, which it is perfectly entitled to be. But what perhaps Dick Smith and the like seem to forget is that they employ 10,000 Australians. I know my family don’t give two hoots about the fact some Chinese companies own a minority stake in Virgin, they just care that the pay cheque arrives every fortnight. And I bet that is the case for the other 10000 families that Virgin have employees with.

This article, and the people quoted in it, should be called out for what they are.
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 11:24
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Dick for what reasons do you see all these Chinese flying schools opening up all over the country as some form of threat? Would you ban these schools if you could?

Ballarat is a fine example. Look at the airport before STAA arrived and look at it now.

Bendigo is another trying to woo the schools, upgrade recently completed. Mareeba is another, incredible amounts of upgrades underway in an attempt to bring in these businesses.
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 15:20
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Klink View Post
I actually don’t know where to start with that article.....

By reading it anyone would think that the the defence facility at Tamworth houses multiple squadrons of F18s and F35s and that it’s pivotal to the nation’s defense. Excuse me as I roll my eyes in the knowledge that the only thing that flys there on behalf of the defence force are CT4s. And obviously the defence force doesn’t care particularly about this as they contract the work out to civilian operators in the form of BAE.

Again the article seems to suggest that the Chinese are running the defence force out of town - again BAE at Tamworth lost the contract and all RAAF ab-initio training is going to be conducted at East Sale. So no flying training will be conducted at Tamworth from October 31.

Except the article fails to mention that CAE have opened up a satellite operation to add to their already significant amounts of flying they do at Moorabbin. And would it shock anyone to know that CAE’s major clients are....Chinese airline cadets. In addition to this it is probably worth mentioning that a significant number of the major flying schools in Australia have contracts with overseas (and most are significantly Chinese) airlines.

So here is what I can’t fathom - where does all this scaremongering about Chinese airline students come from and why? When people of the likes of Dick Smith are complaining about the demise of GA in this country - how can he then go and get all up and about when there is the possibility of a major GA flying school about to commence operations. When the likes of Barnaby Joyce are complaining about the demise of rural towns (and shifting large government departments to these towns) - how can they be possibly complaining about this flying school going ahead. The school is going to be training airline pilots - not Chinese military pilots who are going to learn the secrets of Australian Defence Force aviation. Do these people need to be reminded of the significant benefits that a flying school like this could bring to a regional centre like Tamworth - especially considering the RAAF have elected to stop basic training being carried out there? Here is a tip, go and ask the communities of Mildura (Pearson’s- training Chinese cadets), Ballarat (Singapore Training Academy - training Chinese cadets), Wagga (Rex training academy), etc how they feel about the increased business that these schools have brought to those regional centres.

To train 500 students a year you would need close to 100 staff (flying instructors, engineers, refuellers, etc, etc). The amount of money (read jobs) that this would bring into the town is significant. And this is also the same reason you had multiple regional cities bidding for the Qantas training academy - because businesses like this breed jobs. And on a side note, Qantas have said that they want to not only train Australian pilots, but foreign airline pilots as well (queue the outrage). They have said they want 500 pilots a year - and it won’t take three guesses where a lot of those foreign pilots will be from.

I get a little sick and tired of Virgin having the boots sunk into it because of its ownership structure. Virgin is majority foreign owned, which it is perfectly entitled to be. But what perhaps Dick Smith and the like seem to forget is that they employ 10,000 Australians. I know my family don’t give two hoots about the fact some Chinese companies own a minority stake in Virgin, they just care that the pay cheque arrives every fortnight. And I bet that is the case for the other 10000 families that Virgin have employees with.

This article, and the people quoted in it, should be called out for what they are.
How dare you bring logic and reason to a perfectly good virgin bashing thread.
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 22:26
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So here is what I can’t fathom - where does all this scaremongering about Chinese airline students come from and why?

There’s a narrative running in the media lately that the “evil, scary Chinese” are here to take over our country by stealth. This just plays into that.

Same as Clive Palmer running these ads showing the China Southern College in Merredin being used as a “back door” base for a Chinese Invasion of Perth. It would be hillarious if a large amount of people weren’t falling for these lies and taking them seriously:

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Old 28th Jul 2019, 00:45
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post

There’s a narrative running in the media lately that the “evil, scary Chinese” are here to take over our country by stealth. This just plays into that.

Same as Clive Palmer running these ads showing the China Southern College in Merredin being used as a “back door” base for a Chinese Invasion of Perth. It would be hillarious if a large amount of people weren’t falling for these lies and taking them seriously:

Important Security Information for every Australian
Provided Australian companies can invest and control assets including airports in China there should be no problem....
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 01:16
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Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
Provided Australian companies can invest and control assets including airports in China there should be no problem....
So, we should base our countries ownership policies on those of a communist dictatorship?
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 02:45
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The Chinese don't need people on the ground in Australia to do their spying. They've allegedly been doing this remotely for years!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-...nment/10212600
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 03:52
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Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
So, we should base our countries ownership policies on those of a communist dictatorship?
Perhaps in hindsight the /sarc tag was in fact needed.

Australia's naive and short term self serving behaviour has allowed Chinese interests (all state controlled) to purchase agriculture, property and all sorts of strategic assets.
Politicians from both sides take donations from interesting types, "entrepreneurs" from a single party state, where Private enterprise is a misnomer. The FIRB ignores money laundering from Chinese interest amounting to billions, while the ATO cracks down on PAYG taxpayer claims. The political class point fingers at each other, while continuing to solicit donations from Chinese interests.

In short Australia's lack of oversight, lack of sovereign concern and desire for the ever quick buck have resulted in the mess that is foreign policy, awakening a populous to the reality of China keen to spread its peculiar view of the world beyond its borders.

Australia's backbone is as strong as the concrete presently keeping up all the dog box slums dotting Australia's cities.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 04:24
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I find it ironic that Dick Smith, whose love for aviation and Australia I do not doubt is so strong on promoting an isolationist Australia as far as business is concerned however the same Dick Smith got his wealth through promoting and importing foreign made electronic components and equipment and hence contributing greatly to the decimation of the component manufacturing industry and the electronic manufacturing industry.
Maybe a middle road is needed but it seems the playing field is slanted and time needed to catch up.
Maybe a time for Australia to build a flying school in the Paracel Islands so that they do not have to fly so far to train.

Last edited by harrryw; 28th Jul 2019 at 05:45.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 06:06
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Dick Smith
promoting an isolationist Australia
I dont believe he’s done any such thing.

He’s merely alerting people to the fact we seem to be selling ourselves (cheaply) to a foreign dictatorship. One it seems that hasn’t been playing by the rules the rest of us have to face (trade, currency, borders, maritime law, human rights, etc etc). Correct me if I’m wrong but His, and others’, concerns in this area doesn’t extend to doing business with other foreign entities who DO adhere to the rule of law.

Being cautious and critical of where Chinese Communist party is placing their money (and influence) should be encouraged, even if this particular deal turns out to be innocuous.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 06:37
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ExtraShot, I think you would be hard pressed to find any country that DOES adhere to the rule of law in those areas you quoted. I do think he has been producing an isolationist Australia. Just look at his campaigns regarding Australian Made aimed at manufacturers in the US and Europe. I do believe though that Australia has allowed and in many ways encouraged overseas ownership or effective control of resources and trade at either too fast a rate or too high a rate and that a pause in that regard may be warranted. I repeat my respect for Dick in many areas is real however there were areas which his actions in Australia cost the livelihoods of many people in this country but that was 60 years ago and maybe people mature and change.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 07:00
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Hehehehe..., gotta love this latest iteration of the Red Peril and the Asian Hordes. Remember when the Japanese were buying up the Gold Coast? Remember when they all lost their shirts when property values went south and the exchange rate turned? Or when they stopped coming to Cairns and decided Guam was cheaper and safer? Or when their economy tanked and our trade surplus evaporated?
Or maybe you don’t........... Be careful what you wish for.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 07:41
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I think you would be hard pressed to find any country that DOES adhere to the rule of law in those areas you quoted
I’m not saying every country does, but not every other country is an Authoritarian Communist Dictatorship with such extremes expansionist ambitions.

​​​​​​​But if you insist. Off you go then. Let’s have a few examples. Why not start with Australia?

Ill start with a by no means exhaustive list of the Chinese who’s money we should apparently take no matter what;

Tiananmen, Tibet, Social credit scores, South China Seas, Taiwan, Questionable loans to impoverished nations, the purchase of political influence, Money Laundering, Lack of independent judiciary, Treatment of Uighurs, Treatment of other Religious Groups, Intellectual copyright violations, Intellectual Property Violations, No press freedom,No political freedom, A President for life...

Oh yes of course George, getting close to the old ‘It’s Raaaacist’ argument. You’ll have to try harder than that.

Questioning the the integrity and intent of those businesses linked to the CCP, and those doing business with them has absolute merit.

More of it I say.

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Old 28th Jul 2019, 08:15
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How about the Australian governement planting listening devices in the cabinet room of the Timor Leste government?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austra...spying_scandal
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