Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Virgin E-190 inbound

Old 16th May 2019, 06:37
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Virgin E-190 inbound

Noted on FR24 is Virgin E-190 VH-ZPT tracking to Cairns from Hilo. Aircraft in storage at Nashville for a while.
I thought they were expensive to operate ?
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Old 16th May 2019, 06:48
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They are going to Tiger. Why have two fleet types when you can have three.

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Old 16th May 2019, 07:02
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Originally Posted by Office Update View Post
Noted on FR24 is Virgin E-190 VH-ZPT tracking to Cairns from Hilo. Aircraft in storage at Nashville for a while.
I thought they were expensive to operate ?

Inbound to Cobham
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Old 17th May 2019, 08:01
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I thought they were expensive to operate ?
I think there were some issues early on around engine maintenance costs, Jetblue in the US had some concerns. If the Boeing chart below is anywhere near accurate then at 3% of operating costs, that should be controllable. VA ditched their Embraer jets because the Wunderkind JB said so. Now they are still paying leases on them whilst stored in the US (not this one). A brilliant move to replace E jets with ATR turboprops.

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Old 17th May 2019, 08:46
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Some people I have spoken to say the problem with the E-Jet is that it needs a little more love and won't go up and down all day like a 737, which is what VOz ops was used to. There is also the issue that when Godfrey bought them, he saw them as a jet that would fly all over the network, including on the transcons, as a somewhat cheaper alternative to the 737-700. That's why why they went with the AR version. And that was fine when Virgin Blue was cheap and cheerful, just a bit harder when you put a halo product on the A330s and tell everyone that you're the Ritz of the Air now.

In my very limited experience of the Jungle Jet as a passenger, it was a great piece of kit that was very comfortable. But, also in my experience, the two times I flew on them the loads were way too light to be economical, which you can blame on the rev managers. Perhaps that is part of a wider issue?
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Old 17th May 2019, 09:45
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Originally Posted by Dewa_Gede_70 View Post
Inbound to Cobham
Yep. This particular aircraft was the one destined for Jetgo before they went bust. Delivered to Cobham earlier today still in basic Jetgo colours.
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Old 17th May 2019, 19:11
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EBT there was never any intention to run them transcon, but your basic premise is correct - they were seen as a cheaper alternative to a -700 on east coast city pairs, particularly Sydney canberra

The logic still stands, if you have 100 punters on a flight then you are chockers on a 190 and just over half full on an 800. 1 less cabin crew member, pilots were a bit cheaper, it burnt less fuel and the ANC’s were lower, plus they were a shedload cheaper to buy than a 800, and at one point virgin owned most of them.

I can’t wrap my head around the logic of paying someone else to do your flying. Alliance surely aren’t doing it for free, so they must be making a profit. If they are making a profit it is a profit that VA could have potentially made using their own resources.

As for the product, it was a much nicer proposition than the 737 regardless of the outside paint scheme and the soft product inside. 2x2 economy with 1x2 J class is pretty comfy and it is quieter than the 737, lighter with bigger windows than the 737, and cruises at pretty much the same speed (somewhat faster than an ATR).

Getting rid of them was an act of hubris on the part of a couple of people - all of whom are no longer with the business having taken their bonuses and departed the scene happy.

It was terribly sad as many of the pilots were very happy on that fleet and would have stayed there longer if given the opportunity. I should also be noted that those same pilots are getting paid more to fly the 737 and they still would prefer the ejet.



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Old 18th May 2019, 09:33
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Well I see that VARA run a Fokker 100 between ADL and PER. Surely an Ejet would have been better? As for the ATR routes, no contest.
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Old 18th May 2019, 13:11
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Shirley you're not serious???? The social media fanfare and the supposed future of Cobham FIFO and it is going to fly on Monday PER-BWB-PER in Jetgo house colors!!!! Guessing it won't be welcome at KTA given the council paid for the paint job.

If Cobham can't even afford a lease return white paint job presume it's still VA config 6J/92Y and the hi-viz boys and girls have to punch on at boarding to decide who sits in the comfy seats......

Do let us all know please.
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Old 19th May 2019, 01:57
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Cobham need an aircraft for Chevron less than 25 years old.

they already had the e-jet on the AOC and ex VA they are cheap.

As for an e-jet revolution in Aus, not goanna happen, all costs considered, the FK100 kills it.

maybe the E2 in 5-10 years, but I doubt even that
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Old 19th May 2019, 02:23
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As for an e-jet revolution in Aus, not goanna happen, all costs considered, the FK100 kills it.
Except F100s are 20-30 years old. Reality is you can't keep flogging ancient aircraft forever. F100 operators are going to have to start looking at an alternative eventually, whether they like it or not.
Will customers be willing to accept and operators willing to risk 40 year old aircraft?
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Old 19th May 2019, 02:48
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The social media fanfare and the supposed future of Cobham FIFO and it is going to fly on Monday PER-BWB-PER in Jetgo house colors!!!!
Which platform had the "social media fanfare" I cannot see anything on the Cobham FB page?

all costs considered, the FK100 kills it
What about the costs of delays and rescue flights? Ask Network pilots about the rate of breakdowns.

F100 operators are going to have to start looking at an alternative eventually, whether they like it or not.
Exactly. The clients will want "modern" aircraft, as you say...
Cobham need an aircraft for Chevron less than 25 years old.
FNJ 1993
FNR 1994
FNY 1994
FNU 1991
NHP 1992
NHC 1993
FKD 1991
UQD 1993
XWQ 1990

25 to 29 years old.

ZPT 2011 8 years old.
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Old 19th May 2019, 03:30
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Originally Posted by Zhoottoo View Post
If Cobham can't even afford a lease return white paint job presume it's still VA config 6J/92Y and the hi-viz boys and girls have to punch on at boarding to decide who sits in the comfy seats......

Do let us all know please.
You're correct. Right down to the mish-mash red/purple/gray headrest covers and the purple cabin divider between the J and Y seats.

A Cobham E190 in Jetgo colours with Virgin interior... brand identity confusion much?
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Old 19th May 2019, 03:50
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A Cobham E190 in Jetgo colours with Virgin interior... brand identity confusion much?
Yeah, I bet the passengers will be devastated. Good chance that they will refuse to board.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 01:32
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Spot on, Neville & Icarus.
Something extremely important that the bean-counters are oblivious to and which is very prevalent right now, is damage to your brand!
Constant breakdowns running cheap old aircraft creates a brand reliability issue, no matter how hard working & good your maintenance team may be... "Can't see the forest for the trees", comes to mind.
A good brand reliability pays the bills many times over, hence investing in newer airframes as per Cobham (Emb/Q400) will see them in a more powerful position I reckon.
Happy landings
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Old 22nd May 2019, 03:44
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Originally Posted by Snakecharma View Post
EBT there was never any intention to run them transcon, but your basic premise is correct - they were seen as a cheaper alternative to a -700 on east coast city pairs, particularly Sydney canberra

The logic still stands, if you have 100 punters on a flight then you are chockers on a 190 and just over half full on an 800. 1 less cabin crew member, pilots were a bit cheaper, it burnt less fuel and the ANCís were lower, plus they were a shedload cheaper to buy than a 800, and at one point virgin owned most of them.

I canít wrap my head around the logic of paying someone else to do your flying. Alliance surely arenít doing it for free, so they must be making a profit. If they are making a profit it is a profit that VA could have potentially made using their own resources.

As for the product, it was a much nicer proposition than the 737 regardless of the outside paint scheme and the soft product inside. 2x2 economy with 1x2 J class is pretty comfy and it is quieter than the 737, lighter with bigger windows than the 737, and cruises at pretty much the same speed (somewhat faster than an ATR).

Getting rid of them was an act of hubris on the part of a couple of people - all of whom are no longer with the business having taken their bonuses and departed the scene happy.

It was terribly sad as many of the pilots were very happy on that fleet and would have stayed there longer if given the opportunity. I should also be noted that those same pilots are getting paid more to fly the 737 and they still would prefer the ejet.

Brett Godfrey did mention transcons when he was in the driver's seat as to why they went for the AR variant. Of course, it was probably more of an option if the market tanked and they needed to downgrade from 737-800s but keep frequency. But then when JB came in, it was all about the premium seats and A330s.

As much as VA could pick up the Alliance-operated flights if they brought back some EJets (or an alternative), I imagine that by the time you add in all the infrastructure, training systems etc that would have to be brought back on-line, the Alliance deal is probably much cheaper. But it probably only makes sense in the short-term and on specific routes. Flying an F100 12 hours a day like a 737 across a network gets expensive quickly. Add in a potential takeover of Alliance by Qantas into the mix and VA will probably be taking a good hard look at a longer-term 100-seat solution.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 07:18
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Brand issue my backside, the miners couldn't give a rats arse about that. Five yrs ago there was concern about delays and reliability etc, but that was during the boom with a need to retain workers as there were more jobs than workers. However, that's not the case now with most workers more worried about keeping their jobs; prime concern now is cost.

Anyone have an idea what the difference is in lease costs between a F100 and an E190, I've seen online that values for an E190 range from 25 to 30 mil, so what would that be as a monthly lease compared to an F100?
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Old 22nd May 2019, 07:30
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Who cares what the miners think? They aren't signing the contract, their bosses are.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 09:39
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Pretty sure a second hand F100 is around $2-3m. Cheap as chips for an airliner. It's why Alliance love them.
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