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QF in the OZ paper today

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Old 21st Aug 2018, 22:14
  #41 (permalink)  
Seagull201
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Everyone contributing to this thread is going around in circles, hold your horses.
Nobody knows what's actually written in rhe alleged report.
Eveeyone has to wait and see what lead to these circumstances and what's alleged to have been said.
All the facts please!
Also, who is this neighbour, their age, proffession, and relationship with the pilot?
Its an terrible situation for any person to be subjected to.
Really need to wait and see, the whole story.
 
Old 21st Aug 2018, 22:55
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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But that's the scary part Seagull. If it wasn't for this pilot luckily coming across the infornation, it's confidentiality would have meant the facts, and answers to all your questions, would have never come out.
That's the heart of the issue.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 03:20
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The pilot is also a lawyer and I understand there is quite some police history between the two - history that all relates favourably to the pilot.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 03:27
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Unfortunately its the pilot who is unable to work at the moment. I assume he is still being paid a base salary but he is missing out on the overtime and allowances. I wonder whether it would worthwhile paying a psychologist for an hour consultation for a mental health checkup and be certified healthy in the same way we have to pay for an ECG to assess the state of our heart. At least if there is an anonymous complaint you already have a Dr's assessment that you don't have a mental health issue.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 03:32
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by V-Jet
The pilot is also a lawyer and I understand there is quite some police history between the two - history that all relates favourably to the pilot.
That is a very welcome development. It is much harder to bully and intimidate when an individual is well aware of their rights and knows when less is more.

It would be of immense value if the litigation exposes a woeful lack of due process by the regulator
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 04:54
  #46 (permalink)  
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That is good news V-Jet. Anyone know if the union is involved?
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 05:05
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Separate from the issue of QF finding out, how does he know it was the neighbour who complained to CASA? Is it not a "confidential and anonymous" reporting system? Is he making an assumption based on 'who else could it have been?' What sort of anonymous reporting system identifies and records those who report?
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 05:33
  #48 (permalink)  
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He is in possession of a copy of the report. CASA are pursuing legal avenues to have him return it. Someone must have his interest at heart to pass it on, good for them for doing something against this rapacious and inept organisation. Am I allowed to fly a lighty yet if the temp exceeds 40°C?
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 06:12
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by megan
He is in possession of a copy of the report. CASA are pursuing legal avenues to have him return it. Someone must have his interest at heart to pass it on, good for them for doing something against this rapacious and inept organisation. Am I allowed to fly a lighty yet if the temp exceeds 40°C?
That's where I can't put 2 and 2 together. What is CASA hoping to achieve here? The pilot's already got the information, how can he possibly be expected to return it? Surely CASA can't believe that he wouldn't have made a copy for himself prior to sending it back. That's a ludicrous charge.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 06:13
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by megan
He is in possession of a copy of the report. CASA are pursuing legal avenues to have him return it. Someone must have his interest at heart to pass it on, good for them for doing something against this rapacious and inept organisation. Am I allowed to fly a lighty yet if the temp exceeds 40°C?
Agreed.
CASA could have simply suspended the medical certificate. They did not.
It would appear axiomatically that there are elements within both the regulatory and flight operations body that view this draconian overreach as very much against the interests of aviation safety. An otherwise anonymous and unreliable witnesses can cut down a professional pilot without any regard given to the motivation, qualification or history of the complainant.

Justice is served by open process, not dystopian bureaucracy.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 07:35
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Originally Posted by Rated De
Agreed.
CASA could have simply suspended the medical certificate. They did not.
It would appear axiomatically that there are elements within both the regulatory and flight operations body that view this draconian overreach as very much against the interests of aviation safety. An otherwise anonymous and unreliable witnesses can cut down a professional pilot without any regard given to the motivation, qualification or history of the complainant.

Justice is served by open process, not dystopian bureaucracy.

what makes you think CASA didn’t suspend his medical certificate? The article says “licence” but I wouldn’t place any credence on that. I doubt the reporter would know the technical difference.
Normally, the medical is suspended pending further evidence.
In a past case which is very similar, it involved requiring the pilot to attend a shrink to be assessed as not having the mental issues he was reported as having.
He spent the next 5 years highly affronted, refusing to see a shrink and taking failed legal action, mostly without pay. He was then terminated for not fulfilling his contract of employment. He didn’t ever fly as a pilot again.
All his mates and his union were egging him on and assuring him that the legal way would succeed. His mates and his union indirectly aided and abetted CASA in destroying his piloting career.

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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 07:45
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Folks,
I would really like to know all the facts in this matter.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 09:08
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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He is in possession of a copy of the report.
I get that, but why is a supposedly anonymous source identified in the report? I have never used CASA's "anonymous and confidential" system, but surely they don't ask for your name and address as part of the process? Or does the anonymous report contain enough detail that the responder can identify the source?
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 10:33
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Okiara, if you cannot legally have it, you can't use it to mount your case.

Traffic etc.... https://www.casa.gov.au/about-us/web...safe-behaviour.

What is extraordinary is that there are two check buttons, one for "Health concerns about a pilot" and the other for everything else....
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 10:47
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wombat watcher



what makes you think CASA didn’t suspend his medical certificate? The article says “licence” but I wouldn’t place any credence on that. I doubt the reporter would know the technical difference.
Normally, the medical is suspended pending further evidence.
In a past case which is very similar, it involved requiring the pilot to attend a shrink to be assessed as not having the mental issues he was reported as having.
He spent the next 5 years highly affronted, refusing to see a shrink and taking failed legal action, mostly without pay. He was then terminated for not fulfilling his contract of employment. He didn’t ever fly as a pilot again.
All his mates and his union were egging him on and assuring him that the legal way would succeed. His mates and his union indirectly aided and abetted CASA in destroying his piloting career.
So what do you suggest the pilot should have done? Capitulate in the face of such an outrageous denial of natural justice? Given how gutless most of the pilot population is, and given their propensity to scramble over the carcasses of their colleagues to get a job, you’re probably correct: Capitulation is probably the only practical option.
Okiara, if you cannot legally have it, you can't use it to mount your case.
Bollocks.

Administrative torture is not a prosecution. There are no rules of evidence in the administrative torture process.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 11:10
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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If he wants to save his piloting career, do exactly what CASA asks him to do to deal with the accusation tht he is not really the person that the person who put in the CAIR report alleges.
OR
He can sue the pants off whoever he chooses, appeal his position through the various avenues of the legal system that are available to him to clear his name.
if he wants his job back, I recommend the former.
If he wants to clear his name, revenge, get back at his neighbour or any thing else, choose the latter.
he can’t have both.
The former has a good chance of success.
The latter, he has a better chance of winning the $50 million lotto.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 19:28
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Yeah taking the easier option to avoid making trouble for yourself is pretty much how the mafia works too
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 22:06
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
So what do you suggest the pilot should have done? Capitulate in the face of such an outrageous denial of natural justice? Given how gutless most of the pilot population is, and given their propensity to scramble over the carcasses of their colleagues to get a job, you’re probably correct: Capitulation is probably the only practical option. Bollocks.

Administrative torture is not a prosecution. There are no rules of evidence in the administrative torture process.
Very correct. It is akin to starving a pilot out. Denied of natural justice and starved of income, usually means the pilot will cease and desist. It is the cowardice of CASA on display for all pilots, and from the posts it appears they may have met an interesting adversary. CASA see themselves collectively above the law, not subject to oversight and therefore able to act unilaterally.

Also agree that CASA's insistence to invalidate possession of the said documents is bollocks, the court may well see it differently.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 00:26
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rated De
CASA see themselves collectively above the law, not subject to oversight and therefore able to act unilaterally.
Folks,
Some time ago now, witnessed by me, so not a second hand story.

The then DAS/CEO in a meeting with the then Minister, the subject CASA treatment of an investigation, as investigator, judge, jury and executioner.

In answer to a direct question by said Minister, the DAS/CEO reply: "But, Minister, if I had to have proof, I would need another hundred investigators".

Aroa, who posts here, can tell you all about CASA "investigative procedures".

Tootle pip!!
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 00:41
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mattyj
Yeah taking the easier option to avoid making trouble for yourself is pretty much how the mafia works too
My thoughts exactly.
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