Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

457s are back!

Old 6th Aug 2018, 00:56
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457s are back!

Have the 76 been identified, or is it an aspirational number?
The labour agreement granted last month allows the airline's regional arm, QantasLink, to bring 76 pilots and instructors into the country for up to four years, avoiding new two-year restrictions that block permanent residency.https://www.afr.com/news/policy/indu...0180805-h13knt
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 01:40
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A) good luck finding 76 that are willing to come and fly a turboprop.

B) If they do find 76 then Id be interested to see what the quality is like of the applicants.

My Company struggled with both A and B when they went to the market
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 01:44
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Originally Posted by Chadzat View Post
A) good luck finding 76 that are willing to come and fly a turboprop.
Strangely enough with the wages on offer for the position I don't think they will struggle to find applicants, as well for a lot of them it will be a foot in the door at living permanently in Australia.

How good they will be is another question entirely though.
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 02:19
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What a fkn disgrace.
It's amazing how market forces are a wonderful, brilliant, properly capitalist thing....until they're working against you. Australian pilots have been screwed by market forces and labour oversupply for decades, leading to the undersupply we see now. All of a sudden, business runs off to the government and finds a way around having to pay the wages the market is now demanding to correct the balance. It's a sick joke.
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 02:54
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Just rediculous there are still plenty of guys in GA or working as instructors who would kill for a job at qlink, including many who have been knocked back. 457 Visas shouldn't be approved unless everyone of them has a job or was knocked back for a genuine reason. Where the union on this??
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 03:03
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Surely these 76 aren't FOs, they be DECs and C&Ters?
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 03:13
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Unions should now lobby government to allow some of the big airlines ( Singapore , Chinese operators , Cathay and Emirates ) to be allowed to open bases in Australia and operate domestically . Pay top wages . Call it a 754 visa !
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 03:15
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Originally Posted by logansi View Post
Just rediculous there are still plenty of guys in GA or working as instructors who would kill for a job at qlink, including many who have been knocked back. 457 Visas shouldn't be approved unless everyone of them has a job or was knocked back for a genuine reason. Where the union on this??
The problem is they would need training on the Q400, then the next day kill for that job at Virgin on 777.

I am sure REX are having a sigh of relief.

P.S. They are not 457 visas, and my understanding is that they don't require the companies to commit to training like the 457 did.

What is your position on the E3 visa in the USA?
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 03:16
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Market forces is just a fairy tale told to you keep you compliant.

What this is really about is selling residency & citizenship in return for reduced rate contracts. The new Australian business model (actually most of the western world) is selling a pathway residency and ultimately leading to citizenship an AU passport and thence all the socialised benefits (healthcare etc) for elderly family and relatives through family reunion programs.

From the sponsoring business perspective you gain a valuable model employee who will do EXACTLY what they are told to do, for fear of rocking the board and no longer able to gain the carrot at the end.

However, there is an implicit tax extracted from the overseas visa holder for this juicy carrot, in the form of acceptance of lesser contracts.. That tax is captured by the sponsoring business, rather than the government via the lower wages. Further, it reduces upward pressure on contracts for exisiting citizens.

Yes, I'm sure there are reams and reams of useless paperwork, expert reports, studies, surveys all produced, most likely complete junk when held up to scrutiny to provide a fig leaf of plausibility for an outcome that was always desired by both the Airline and the Government. It's so much more convenient & personally profitable to buyback $1++ billion of shares than invest in your business through training people.
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 03:18
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
The problem is they would need training on the Q400, then the next day kill for that job at Virgin on 777.

I am sure REX are having a sigh of relief.

P.S. They are not 457 visas, and my understanding is that they don't require the companies to commit to training like the 457 did.

What is your position on the E3 visa in the USA?
How about they raise pay or if they are so worried about people leaving bond them for a little longer, or even better provide an actual flow to mainline after x number of years.

E3 Visa situation is different the US actually has a shortage. US regionals are offering sign on bonus's of $20,000+, pay rises have been in the double digits and most regionals now have flow to mainline, once Qlink offers that, then they can have 457 Visa's

Australian pilots once shut down the country over pay, now they accept pay rises just above inflation while pilots come in from overseas.
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 03:29
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
What is your position on the E3 visa in the USA?
E3s dont lead to the US equivalent of permanent residency - Green Card.
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 04:02
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Originally Posted by CurtainTwitcher View Post

What this is really about is selling residency & citizenship in return for reduced rate contracts. The new Australian business model (actually most of the western world) is selling a pathway residency and ultimately leading to citizenship an AU passport and thence all the socialised benefits (healthcare etc) for elderly family and relatives through family reunion programs.
You seem to be ill informed about family reunion programs. If I can assume you mean parents and siblings you are definatly wrong.

Parents can come under certain conditions only and there are 2 ways. One is relitivly cheap but is capped and process time is a little better than the estimated 30 years.
The second is around $100,000 and processed from memory in around 18 months, medicals must be passed and I recall not eligible for Medicare (not 100% on that).

Failing that they can get visitor visas for longer than normal at around $20,000 for 10 years from memory - No Medicare.

As for the siblings - the only pathway is last remaining relative, this also has plenty of conditions.

If you are comming to get PR on the 457, your starting a new life on your own (wife and kids excluded).
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 04:11
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Originally Posted by logansi View Post
How about they raise pay or if they are so worried about people leaving bond them for a little longer, or even better provide an actual flow to mainline after x number of years.

E3 Visa situation is different the US actually has a shortage. US regionals are offering sign on bonus's of $20,000+, pay rises have been in the double digits and most regionals now have flow to mainline, once Qlink offers that, then they can have 457 Visa's

Australian pilots once shut down the country over pay, now they accept pay rises just above inflation while pilots come in from overseas.
From what I am hearing the new employer is covering the bond of the pilot, bonding for longer could result in restraint of trade.

How would Rex provide an actual flow to mainline?

I expect the covered bond could be well above the $20,000 signing bonus.

I would be pretty sure that immigration allowed pilots into Australia prior to the shut down, yes that was an interesting time.
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 04:18
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
You seem to be ill informed about family reunion programs. If I can assume you mean parents and siblings you are definatly wrong.

Parents can come under certain conditions only and there are 2 ways. One is relitivly cheap but is capped and process time is a little better than the estimated 30 years.
The second is around $100,000 and processed from memory in around 18 months, medicals must be passed and I recall not eligible for Medicare (not 100% on that).

Failing that they can get visitor visas for longer than normal at around $20,000 for 10 years from memory - No Medicare.

As for the siblings - the only pathway is last remaining relative, this also has plenty of conditions.

If you are comming to get PR on the 457, your starting a new life on your own (wife and kids excluded).
If I am wrong, I stand corrected.
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 04:55
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Originally Posted by stormfury View Post
Have the 76 been identified, or is it an aspirational number?
The labour agreement granted last month allows the airline's regional arm, QantasLink, to bring 76 pilots and instructors into the country for up to four years, avoiding new two-year restrictions that block permanent residency.https://www.afr.com/news/policy/indu...0180805-h13knt
Did they say Dash 8s in the text or was that an assumption?


Courtesy of QANTAS
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 05:42
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Originally Posted by CurtainTwitcher View Post
If I am wrong, I stand corrected.
Bit of info here - that new visa from 2017 has a one of extension of 5 years.

Another thin to concider is for the first 4 years they will be on TR visa, after that allthings going well they can apply for PR. The process is not automatic and Partner Visas are currently taking around 2 years to process.
Currently after 2 years (they are trying to increase this) you can apply for Citizenship again with a processing time.

That might not matter to many, but if you have kids- imagine the university costs of being on TR & PR.

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/brin/pare
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 05:57
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What a load of crap. As I said in my post on the Cobham Cadet Pilot Thread - How is it that QANT-ASS and others are permitted to force aspiring pilots overseas to create a career for themselves but are then allowed to import skills from overseas when they have made a conscious financial decision NOT to develop talent locally.
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 07:01
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Australian pilots once shut down the country over pay, now they accept pay rises just above inflation while pilots come in from overseas.
In coffee shops and crew bases industry wide, this was until the recent past SOP for pilots.
With an ever growing shortage there is a relevant question that is unanswered by the unions representing pilots.

Why is the union movement silent? The answer is they and airline management are two sides of the same coin.

With a certain former union president actively involved in 'pilot supply' why precisely is that sort of conga line from one side to the other permitted and indeed tolerated?
We are even informed a current Qantas 'negotiator' has quietly become a 'made man' (Training) during an enterprise negotiation...Conflict of interest? Nah just standard practice.

They aren't even discreet these days
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 11:42
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Originally Posted by Chadzat View Post
A) good luck finding 76 that are willing to come and fly a turboprop.

B) If they do find 76 then Id be interested to see what the quality is like of the applicants.

My Company struggled with both A and B when they went to the market
yes, isnt the shortage of suitable applicants worldwide?
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Old 6th Aug 2018, 12:05
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So Qlink knocked me back for not having recent instrument time.

The solution to that is bring pilots from overseas?
They had no shortage of applicants that week. Its all smoke and mirrors.
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