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Flying hours

Old 29th Jul 2018, 08:34
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Flying hours

i was checking flightradar24 and looking at the flight histories for planes, ive noticed that jetstar planes normally takeoff sydney around 6am and land back at sydney around 10pm .Am I right in thinking that a single 2 pilot crew would be in charge of the plane from 5am till around 10:30pm?
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 09:14
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No. Definitely not. There’d be a crew change midway through the day.
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 09:50
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Originally Posted by 130herc View Post
i was checking flightradar24 and looking at the flight histories for planes, ive noticed that jetstar planes normally takeoff sydney around 6am and land back at sydney around 10pm .Am I right in thinking that a single 2 pilot crew would be in charge of the plane from 5am till around 10:30pm?
If they could they would - but even better with single 1 pilot crew 7 days a week.
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 09:55
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Folks,
In 1966, the then CEO of Qantas, Cedric Turner, said: "When Boeing builds a pilotless airliner, Qantas will be the first to buy it".
Some things never change.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 11:49
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Originally Posted by Keg View Post
No. Definitely not. Thereíd be a crew change midway through the day.
Ah. That makes a lot more sense now, thanks.
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 12:40
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Originally Posted by LeadSled View Post
Folks,
In 1966, the then CEO of Qantas, Cedric Turner, said: "When Boeing builds a pilotless airliner, Qantas will be the first to buy it".
Some things never change.
Tootle pip!!
That particular Qantas CEO was also the last one to see/cause a pilot strike!
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 23:32
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Originally Posted by Tankengine View Post
That particular Qantas CEO was also the last one to see/cause a pilot strike!
Does being locked out by the current CEO and ordered back to work by the FWC count?
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 23:52
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Am I right in thinking that a single 2 pilot crew would be in charge of the plane from 5am till around 10:30pm?
There are operators who are of the belief that you can be in charge of a aircraft over 4 sectors from 0500 till 1900. The rationale being that because you have been allocated a legal duty under the exemption, you (a) cannot be fatigued and (b) are therefore both physically and mentally fit to extend.
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Old 30th Jul 2018, 00:15
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- slight thread drift -

I believe that "technically" no one was actually ever locked out. (There was certainly no strike). Notification of a lockout was given on Sat 29 to occur at 8pm on Mon 31. FWC terminated all action on 31st before 8pm.

The "grounding" order was given Sat lunchtime, so no one flew but not locked out per se.

(There was one pilot who held a protected stop work meeting in Hong Kong, I think he was locked out of the crew hotel and had to pax himself home. Not 100% sure on that one)


Re Gfk - Ramsay

They sure do - and then expect to be able to extend you out to "rostering" limits, ignoring (deliberately misinterpreting) the CAO.

CASA do not necessarily agree with this (mis) interpretation. But it's the QC that will get ya in the court of inquiry ....... Not CASA.

Last edited by Iron Bar; 30th Jul 2018 at 00:32.
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Old 30th Jul 2018, 03:47
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Originally Posted by 130herc View Post
i was checking flightradar24 and looking at the flight histories for planes, ive noticed that jetstar planes normally takeoff sydney around 6am and land back at sydney around 10pm .Am I right in thinking that a single 2 pilot crew would be in charge of the plane from 5am till around 10:30pm?
If you'd like some light leisure reading, have a read of CAO 48.0 . ;-)

https://www.casa.gov.au/file/106396/...token=sQJCsvkg
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Old 30th Jul 2018, 05:09
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Iron Bar, itís interesting you say that CASA donít necessarily agree with the (mis) interpretation. One of those operators has allegedly had that very thing clarified by CASA. That clarification effectively enshrines the expectation that pilots will extend a duty. 12-14 hour duties in a shorthaul world are NOT safe, but since when is safety more important than a few bucks ay!
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Old 30th Jul 2018, 05:42
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KPI's before shareprice before fuel saving before OTP (schedule) before safety...well, at least at Qantas
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Old 30th Jul 2018, 05:57
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Safest* airline in the world though.
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Old 30th Jul 2018, 06:02
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Originally Posted by Bleve View Post


Does being locked out by the current CEO and ordered back to work by the FWC count?
Not at all, although the two CEOs have similarities.
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Old 30th Jul 2018, 06:05
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay View Post
Iron Bar, itís interesting you say that CASA donít necessarily agree with the (mis) interpretation. One of those operators has allegedly had that very thing clarified by CASA. That clarification effectively enshrines the expectation that pilots will extend a duty. 12-14 hour duties in a shorthaul world are NOT safe, but since when is safety more important than a few bucks ay!
They can expect you to extend all they like, it does not mean you have to!
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Old 30th Jul 2018, 06:06
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay View Post
Safest* airline in the world though.
Just a thought about that:


Qantas Flight 1

VH-OJH, the aircraft involved in the accident, photographed at Singapore Changi Airportsome eight years later.AccidentDate23 September 1999SummaryRunway excursion caused by hydroplaning, pilot error aggravated by inclement weatherSiteBangkok, ThailandAircraftAircraft typeBoeing 747–438Aircraft nameCity of DarwinOperatorQantas
RegistrationVH-OJHFlight originSydney AirportStopoverDon Mueang International AirportDestinationLondon Heathrow AirportPassengers391[1]:1Crew19Fatalities0Injuries38 (minor)Survivors410 (all)Qantas Flight 1 (QF1, QFA1) was a Qantaspassenger flight between Sydney and London that was involved in a runway overrun accident at Don Mueang International Airport in Bangkok on 23 September 1999 as it was landing for a stopover.

The importance of pilot training and the difference pilot decisions can make was dramatically demonstrated in the major Qantas accident at Bangkok in 1999. VH-OJH, a Boeing 747-438 with 391 passengers and a crew of nineteen, over-ran the runway when landing in a rainstorm. Nobody was hurt, but it cost $100 million to repair the aircraft.

The damage was such that the aircraft was a write-off, but to preserve its reputation Qantas had it repaired at a cost of $100 million.By returning the aircraft to service, Qantas was able to retain its record of having no hull-loss accidents since the advent of the Jet Age

GEOFFREY LUCK
How Qantas Became the Safest Airline


link to article in Quadrant:

How Qantas Became the Safest Airline ? Quadrant Online
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Old 30th Jul 2018, 06:28
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Please note my sarcasm.

I think an airline who constantly refers to a lack of hull losses as proof of its commitment to safety, like one of our national airlines does, is frankly being deceptive.

Last edited by gordonfvckingramsay; 30th Jul 2018 at 08:29.
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Old 30th Jul 2018, 07:16
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Danger

Originally Posted by gileraguy View Post

The damage was such that the aircraft was a write-off, but to preserve its reputation Qantas had it repaired at a cost of $100 million.By returning the aircraft to service, Qantas was able to retain its record of having no hull-loss accidents since the advent of the Jet Age
Oh FFS. This has been debunked so many times over the years itís not funny.

OJH was repaired for a cost less than $100 million. It was insured for the replacement cost which was at the time well in excess of $140 million. In addition, at the time Boeing had a log jam of backorders for the 744 at the time meaning Qantas had the lost capacity back online well before they would have had theyíd waited for the next available slot off the production line.

Source: the engineer that actually oversaw the repair job and is still sought after world wide for similar repair jobs on big airliners including one on a 747 in Maastricht as recently as a month or so ago.
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Old 30th Jul 2018, 07:31
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Originally Posted by Keg View Post


Oh FFS. This has been debunked so many times over the years itís not funny.

OJH was repaired for a cost less than $100 million. It was insured for the replacement cost which was at the time well in excess of $140 million. In addition, at the time Boeing had a log jam of backorders for the 744 at the time meaning Qantas had the lost capacity back online well before they would have had theyíd waited for the next available slot off the production line.

Source: the engineer that actually oversaw the repair job and is still sought after world wide for similar repair jobs on big airliners including one on a 747 in Maastricht as recently as a month or so ago.
And, folks, subsequent to the repair job, became the best performing aircraft in the fleet, the ONLY one that needed zero rudder trim in cruise, and then had the best "Delta" fuel in the fleet, indeed it then performed ahead of baseline, the real proof for any airframe.
There is an excellent documentary on the whole rebuild, it is made abundantly clear there, by those those doing the work, particularly the senior Boeing engineer on the job, that the aircraft was far from a write-off.
It is insurance underwriters who decide whether a hull is loss or not, in conjunction with the aircraft owners, who are usually finance organisations of some kind, not whoever's name is painted on the side.
Source, me, who flew the aeroplane frequently after the rebuild.
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Old 30th Jul 2018, 08:08
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Source, me, who flew the aeroplane frequently after the rebuild.
Me too! A remarkably successful repair.
………..How did this thread get from "hours" to "OJH"??

Getting back to 130Herc's original question….
Am I right in thinking that a single 2 pilot crew would be in charge of the plane from 5am till around 10:30pm?
It would be unlikely that they'd stick with the same aircraft all day even if the crew did do a full 11 or 12 hour day. It would not be unusual to do 4 sectors in 4 different aircraft.

Last edited by C441; 30th Jul 2018 at 08:33.
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