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Old 26th Mar 2018, 03:57
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ozziekiwi View Post
Bummer - can't see QF10 on FR24 but can see it on Flightaware - not that long to go now. Sometimes they drop off FR24 for no apparent reason ??

Cheers
Ok it's just reappeared on FR24

Cheers
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Old 26th Mar 2018, 05:01
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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There are some very precious little dears on this forum. The more new flights QF start the better it is for all of Australian aviation. More jobs, and they are needed.
To fly to the UK direct from one of the most isolated continents is a great achievement. Yes it would have been great if it was done years ago rather than spending all resources growing an LLC, but it has happened now. Let's hope there are lots more.
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Old 26th Mar 2018, 05:27
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by donpizmeov View Post
There are some very precious little dears on this forum. The more new flights QF start the better it is for all of Australian aviation. More jobs, and they are needed.
To fly to the UK direct from one of the most isolated continents is a great achievement. Yes it would have been great if it was done years ago rather than spending all resources growing an LLC, but it has happened now. Let's hope there are lots more.
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Old 26th Mar 2018, 06:42
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by donpizmeov View Post
There are some very precious little dears on this forum. The more new flights QF start the better it is for all of Australian aviation.
A fine sentiment, but if I am not mistaken this flight takes the place of a previous Qantas A380 into London (which is where the Heathrow slot comes from). Until now there were two A380s daily, both operating via Dubai. Now there is one such A380 and this one B787 via Perth. As the 787 is, roughly, half an A380, that's about a 25% reduction in Qantas availability, cabin crew opportunities, etc, to London.
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Old 26th Mar 2018, 06:58
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Was the other 380 grounded? Or was it, and crew sent somewhere else?
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Old 26th Mar 2018, 08:11
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by donpizmeov View Post
Was the other 380 grounded? Or was it, and crew sent somewhere else?
It now does MEL-SIN-MEL.
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Old 26th Mar 2018, 08:46
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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I think this route is more a PR stunt than anything else. Add a stop in Dubai and you lose 1-2 hours, can double the payload, reduce the crew cost by half and take at least 25% off the fuel cost. Most people do not want to pay more than $100 extra to save an hour...
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Old 26th Mar 2018, 08:55
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by procede View Post
I think this route is more a PR stunt than anything else. Add a stop in Dubai and you lose 1-2 hours, can double the payload, reduce the crew cost by half and take at least 25% off the fuel cost. Most people do not want to pay more than $100 extra to save an hour...
Yes but they may be prepared to pay extra to avoid being exposed to another airport with all its agencies and their potential for spoiling one's day.
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Old 26th Mar 2018, 09:14
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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If travelling from east coast Oz, is the total time any longer with a transit in Dubai, Singapore, Bangkok etc?
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Old 26th Mar 2018, 09:17
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fris B. Fairing View Post
Yes but they may be prepared to pay extra to avoid being exposed to another airport with all its agencies and their potential for spoiling one's day.
We're talking Dubai here, not LaGuardia.
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Old 26th Mar 2018, 09:33
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ruprecht View Post
It now does MEL-SIN-MEL.
Singapore return daily requires 1 aircraft. The London return daily A380 flight now discontinued required 2.5 aircraft.

Alan Joyce stated that Sydney nonstop would be achieved in 2022. Is that going to replace the other A380 flight with a 787 ?
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Old 26th Mar 2018, 10:44
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Getting the other side now...lol

https://www.news-mail.com.au/news/so...-was-/3371093/

Mrs Fliegs & I now head to europe on AY with a CX code share and HKG stop.....have had to only once been made to fly QF since 'The Grounding'.....will not fly with them since the grounding if at all possible...never entertained heading through the ME....Sin or Hkg are so better placed...and jetstar is a simple 'no'...been there done it....won't do it again...ditto Scoot etc...

17 hrs in QF Economy??? 17 hrs in the dark??...Yeah...no thanks...I really enjoy that AY mid morning departure....it's novel....and arrives at a great time...
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Old 27th Mar 2018, 06:40
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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[/I]
Originally Posted by clark y View Post
If travelling from east coast Oz, is the total time any longer with a transit in Dubai, Singapore, Bangkok etc?
Ex BNE it can be much of a muchness (but more options eg 22.5 SQ, 23.5 hrs EY, 24.5 EK vs 26.5 QF via PER). The stop is in the middle third, rather than at the end of 1st fifth.
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Old 27th Mar 2018, 07:22
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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Without reading all the posts can anyone tell me what are the flight crew numbers on this flight PER-LHR ie Captains and FOs just interested regarding duty time on/off my mate tells me the Airline he works for is it 18 hours max from report to finish duty.
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Old 27th Mar 2018, 07:29
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bravohotel View Post
Without reading all the posts can anyone tell me what are the flight crew numbers on this flight PER-LHR ie Captains and FOs just interested regarding duty time on/off my mate tells me the Airline he works for is it 18 hours max from report to finish duty.
World's Best Practice would be two Captains and two First Officers on ULR ops but Qantas do it cheaper with one Captain, one First Officer and two Second Officers. The Agreement can be up to 19.50 and the CASA(Australian Regulator) has set a limit is 20 Hours. No room for any delay. I think this operation will last maximum 6 months and added services will be put on Hong Kong and/or Singapore.
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Old 27th Mar 2018, 09:06
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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No room for any delay. I think this operation will last maximum 6 months and added services will be put on Hong Kong and/or Singapore.
As we quietly postulated on another thread, wait until a Northern winter sees the aircraft supposedly entering a hold at LAM, BNN due a TEMPO.

The aircraft will not be able to, and already have diverted to who knows where as the crew hit the hard limit of 20 hours. Just how Qantas positions a crew and WHEN is a very interesting permutation.

Unfortunately for Qantas, CASA didn't grant a further exemption...

For the slot to be maintained Qantas will slide it to a token 'three times a week' sort of service, before quietly dropping it all together with the QF9 routing through Singapore.

Alan's random walk complete, from 400 JQ aircraft by 2020, Red Q, 'terminal declines and transformations', a game changing hub in DXB, only to abandon it five years later and head back through Singapore. Pure genius.


Oh and they still need a new fleet
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Old 27th Mar 2018, 09:11
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
As we quietly postulated on another thread, wait until a Northern winter sees the aircraft supposedly entering a hold at LAM, BNN due a TEMPO.

The aircraft will not be able to, and already have diverted to who knows where as the crew hit the hard limit of 20 hours. Just how Qantas positions a crew and WHEN is a very interesting permutation.

Unfortunately for Qantas, CASA didn't grant a further exemption...

For the slot to be maintained Qantas will slide it to a token 'three times a week' sort of service, before quietly dropping it all together with the QF9 routing through Singapore.

Alan's random walk complete, from 400 JQ aircraft by 2020, Red Q, 'terminal declines and transformations', a game changing hub in DXB, only to abandon it five years later and head back through Singapore. Pure genius.


Oh and they still need a new fleet
interesting and will QF go back to routing to UK in addition via SIN also go via BKK again or compete with BA (and MH) and a route via KUL???
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Old 27th Mar 2018, 09:29
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Geez you lot are hard to please.

Record profits, new metal/carbon, new routes, shed loads of recruiting and training, promotions left right and centre etc etc...............

I really would hate to see it if things were going pear-shaped!
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Old 27th Mar 2018, 09:31
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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interesting and will QF go back to routing to UK in addition via SIN also go via BKK again or compete with BA (and MH) and a route via KUL???
There was a very directed switch from Qantas to JQ, perhaps part of ideology and labour unit cost considerations, circumventing the legislatove restriction. We simply do not know. The problem with a low fare airline is that yield is difficult to find. One need only look at the ASK flown by JQ (48% of Qantas) yet they only generate 22% of the Revenue Qantas can generate. It is a high volume, low yield business and whilst having a role, not sure it was the solution to all ills.

  • Qantas lost a lot of ground as aircraft poured into JQ. Qantas lost around 400,000 passengers from their aircraft as the cut services into Europe and code shared with EK
  • There is little to no code share revenue observable in the statutory accounts. (Group revenue declines in real terms)
  • The alliance secured Qantas very little and already weakened, they were lucky the ACCC only gave them 5 years, instead of the 10 Mr Joyce wanted.
It is probable all Qantas European flights had to hub through Dubai for the duration of the 'alliance': the UAE is very sensitive to revenue capture from passengers and staff (ask the pilots about trying to live out of Dubai).
It is plausible that Perth to London was not covered by the alliance and therefore a way around it?

We are well aware of huge conflict at senior management level about the 'alliance' and lack of tangible benefit for Qantas. (it couldn't end soon enough)


Logistically the route is thin and suffers from real operational constraints, both from regulatory and meteorological perspectives. The aircraft can physically do it at least it APPEARS to, however the people operating it are very constrained. A planned TOD of 19.50 leaves no room. European weather being what it is EGLL may require a few early diversions, standby crew positioning and where they are positioned adds more variables.

Our hunch is that, given the flight wasn't oversold and some passengers appeared transferred from the existing service through Dubai, it may well quietly be curtailed, a bit like the AOC being split and the many millions spent before abandoning that 'idea'


Mr Joyce for all his favourable press, high remuneration and self promotion, does not seem in the cold light of day to execute well. This could be viewed as poor strategic modelling and a hierarchical management structure. Complex systems need broad inputs and route selection with a new aircraft is a big puzzle.

Mr Joyce's tenure shows examples of poor execution that may indicate poor strategic governance.

JQ HK comes to mind , whereby the plan as submitted did not comply with the Principal Place of Business rules. Very poor that an airline didn't know the rules, inexcusable really. A hasty re-write and a big cheque to Stanley Ho, with an introduction form Mr Packer conceivably, was still not successful. Red Q, lacked similar strategic thought. First Malaysia, then Singapore, then quietly dropped. A quick investigation of AOC applications at the time shows that these were made coincidentally around the same time as the announcement.


Perhaps this service results from a poorly structured model too. Poor strategic thinking, announcing and running a route that may well from a reliability (weather and crew limits) perspective may not be achievable sufficiently frequently to generate the Operating Revenue and patronage.

We would not be surprised to see a QF9 service via Singapore in the Northern Winter.

Last edited by Rated De; 27th Mar 2018 at 09:45. Reason: readability
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Old 27th Mar 2018, 10:13
  #140 (permalink)  
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I really would hate to see it if things were going pear-shaped!
If the truth be known, I think it is.
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