Just or Punitive
Thread Starter
Just or Punitive
Just finished reading "The Flying Kangaroo" by Jim Eames (good read) and what came across was how punitive the airline was at all levels, at least up until after the 707 had been introduced. It raises the question, what was the fall out for the BKK crew, and how would folks characterise the prevailing ethos in their workplace? ME airlines need no mention, the ethos is well understood.
Nunc est bibendum
The rumour of the time was that James Strong wanted the QF1 crew punted but that the then Chief Pilot (I think it was Ray Heineger but could have been Ian Lucas) stood up for them and insisted that this wasn’t the way we did business. Im not sure how accurate that is as I was a pretty junior 767 F/O at the time.
The prevailing ethos? Probably much the same as other airlines. Pilot managers are generally pretty good I think. How far their scope extends given the HR driven world we all inhabit these days is yet to be fully tested.
The prevailing ethos? Probably much the same as other airlines. Pilot managers are generally pretty good I think. How far their scope extends given the HR driven world we all inhabit these days is yet to be fully tested.
Don't know anything about the subject matter but take my hat off to Keg for his balanced response.
Restored faith in Pprune and above the usual level of crap posted here.
Restored faith in Pprune and above the usual level of crap posted here.
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Yes indeed he was. He attended every monthly pilot recognition event ( Service pins, retirement etc) amd said he thoughly enjoyed the stories shared by the crew. Always went out of his way to say hello to me and have a short talk. I believed he genuinely loved QF. Very sad when he passed away.
I was flying in Gove when he was running the bauxite mine and I flew him across to Weipa a number of times. I found him then to be a friendly passenger who was very interested in the aircraft. From memory he took a few flying lessons with the Gove Flying Club in those (early 80's) days.
When he joined Qantas and was aboard an aircraft I was flying he always would come up the front and always addressed me by name, recalling our flights in Gove.
Did I agree with the way he ran the Qantas business? No, not always/often, but he remained a good communicator and usually made an effort to present information, good or bad, directly to the staff and I don't mean from a Pulpit or giant TV screen in 'The Street'.
As for the crew on the QF1. I'm not sure about the F/O and S/O but the Captain remained a line Captain on the 744 until his retirement a couple of years ago. For me, he was one of the best Training Captains I've flown with, but his methods didn't always appeal to everyone.
When he joined Qantas and was aboard an aircraft I was flying he always would come up the front and always addressed me by name, recalling our flights in Gove.
Did I agree with the way he ran the Qantas business? No, not always/often, but he remained a good communicator and usually made an effort to present information, good or bad, directly to the staff and I don't mean from a Pulpit or giant TV screen in 'The Street'.
As for the crew on the QF1. I'm not sure about the F/O and S/O but the Captain remained a line Captain on the 744 until his retirement a couple of years ago. For me, he was one of the best Training Captains I've flown with, but his methods didn't always appeal to everyone.
Last edited by C441; 26th Feb 2018 at 00:00.
I got it from the horse's mouth that James Strong could not have been more supportive of the captain. It's worth noting that the same captain bid to fly OJH to the desert. He saw it as a form of closure.
(It's worth noting that the same captain bid to fly OJH to the desert. He saw it as a form of closure
Folks,
The bloke who went in to bat for the Captain of OJH in Bangkok in a big way was the then head of Safety and the Environment. Without his intervention I am absolutely certain said OJH Captain would have been very lonely.
I speak from being there, at the time.
As it was, it was an unnecessarily long time before those involved were returned to service.
After the rebuild, OJH was the best performing airframe in the fleet, and no, before anybody says it, OJH was nowhere near a economic write-off.
Tootle pip!!
PS: For most airlines, the default position is" Keep the shiny side up and don't scratch it - no excuses".
A "no blame culture" will always be very difficult to find, after an accident. Just ask the Captain of the QF A380 at Singapore immediately after --- and he had to repeat his route check, because CASA decided he "had assistance".
The bloke who went in to bat for the Captain of OJH in Bangkok in a big way was the then head of Safety and the Environment. Without his intervention I am absolutely certain said OJH Captain would have been very lonely.
I speak from being there, at the time.
As it was, it was an unnecessarily long time before those involved were returned to service.
After the rebuild, OJH was the best performing airframe in the fleet, and no, before anybody says it, OJH was nowhere near a economic write-off.
Tootle pip!!
PS: For most airlines, the default position is" Keep the shiny side up and don't scratch it - no excuses".
A "no blame culture" will always be very difficult to find, after an accident. Just ask the Captain of the QF A380 at Singapore immediately after --- and he had to repeat his route check, because CASA decided he "had assistance".
Just a tad of assitance ???
How could anyone not realise the the Capt. of the QF A380 had more than just " assistance"
He had some of the most experienced QF A380 drivers helping him!!!
That's the sort of good luck a lot of us would like to have if faced with a similar situation.
Probably a good call from CASA IMOP.
He had some of the most experienced QF A380 drivers helping him!!!
That's the sort of good luck a lot of us would like to have if faced with a similar situation.
Probably a good call from CASA IMOP.
Or that it may just be check policy....
The rumour of the time was that James Strong wanted the QF1 crew punted but that the then Chief Pilot (I think it was Ray Heineger but could have been Ian Lucas) stood up for them and insisted that this wasn’t the way we did business. Im not sure how accurate that is as I was a pretty junior 767 F/O at the time.
The prevailing ethos? Probably much the same as other airlines. Pilot managers are generally pretty good I think. How far their scope extends given the HR driven world we all inhabit these days is yet to be fully tested.
The prevailing ethos? Probably much the same as other airlines. Pilot managers are generally pretty good I think. How far their scope extends given the HR driven world we all inhabit these days is yet to be fully tested.
Last edited by AerialPerspective; 27th Feb 2018 at 03:39. Reason: addtn
Folks,
The bloke who went in to bat for the Captain of OJH in Bangkok in a big way was the then head of Safety and the Environment. Without his intervention I am absolutely certain said OJH Captain would have been very lonely.
I speak from being there, at the time.
As it was, it was an unnecessarily long time before those involved were returned to service.
After the rebuild, OJH was the best performing airframe in the fleet, and no, before anybody says it, OJH was nowhere near a economic write-off.
Tootle pip!!
PS: For most airlines, the default position is" Keep the shiny side up and don't scratch it - no excuses".
A "no blame culture" will always be very difficult to find, after an accident. Just ask the Captain of the QF A380 at Singapore immediately after --- and he had to repeat his route check, because CASA decided he "had assistance".
The bloke who went in to bat for the Captain of OJH in Bangkok in a big way was the then head of Safety and the Environment. Without his intervention I am absolutely certain said OJH Captain would have been very lonely.
I speak from being there, at the time.
As it was, it was an unnecessarily long time before those involved were returned to service.
After the rebuild, OJH was the best performing airframe in the fleet, and no, before anybody says it, OJH was nowhere near a economic write-off.
Tootle pip!!
PS: For most airlines, the default position is" Keep the shiny side up and don't scratch it - no excuses".
A "no blame culture" will always be very difficult to find, after an accident. Just ask the Captain of the QF A380 at Singapore immediately after --- and he had to repeat his route check, because CASA decided he "had assistance".
I stand corrected from my comment then... except the bit about the bloke and the flood.
Nunc est bibendum
Ive had a couple of people message me to let me know that James Strong was in fact quite supportive of Jack and the crew. Apologies for casting aspersions.
Thanks LS. That’s good to hear. I think of him everytime I pass through Security at airports. One day he was in Melbourne, travelling light with just a briefcase when he was bailed up by those who are there to protect us from evil. The problem was he was carrying a tool kit good enough to repair a B747!