Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

So you need a new fleet Leigh?

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

So you need a new fleet Leigh?

Old 9th May 2019, 10:19
  #881 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,200
Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
Did they buy a fleet?
Yes, of bonusís!!!
dragon man is online now  
Old 9th May 2019, 13:19
  #882 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Sydney
Posts: 51
Originally Posted by dragon man View Post
Companies that own and hold their properties are generally financially stronger than those that donít. Why would you lease an office for 6% yield when you can borrow the money to own it for around 3%.
For lots of reasons. The top one would be if you can put that same money into more productive assets to get an even higher return, which shouldn't be hard.
PlasticFantastic is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 22:00
  #883 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,200
Originally Posted by PlasticFantastic View Post
For lots of reasons. The top one would be if you can put that same money into more productive assets to get an even higher return, which shouldn't be hard.
Really, if you look at the real estate Qantas has owned and sold over the years , two Iíll mention are Qantas house in the city and QCC QCD etc the capital gain plus rent on them would far exceed what they have made flying people.
dragon man is online now  
Old 9th May 2019, 23:44
  #884 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,679
Actually, investors and regulators do have issues with the use of non-statutory measures.

Problems between accounting standards aside, revenue recognition remains an issue in many jurisdictions.

https://hbr.org/2016/07/where-financ...ll-falls-short
Rated De is offline  
Old 10th May 2019, 07:09
  #885 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wellington
Posts: 216
Originally Posted by PlasticFantastic View Post
For lots of reasons. The top one would be if you can put that same money into more productive assets to get an even higher return, which shouldn't be hard.
The only thing they are putting more money into is share buybacks....and Executive Bonuses. Hardly higher return.
Street garbage is offline  
Old 10th May 2019, 07:45
  #886 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Harbour Master Place
Posts: 661
^^^^^^^^^^ buybacks ^^^^^^^^^^^

Everything will be sold, the operational side of the business will continued to be starved, proceeds going to buy back shares. The large institutions will sell at the top to the bagholders who chase momentum and trend as the business will have already eaten itself.
CurtainTwitcher is offline  
Old 10th May 2019, 08:18
  #887 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 308
Yeah...you can only laugh at the prospect of a future capital raising when the impending capex mountain has to finally be climbed. You just feel Alan has a bulldozer in front of him to keep the path smooth but all that dirt being pushed is just being added to the mountain.
crosscutter is offline  
Old 10th May 2019, 08:55
  #888 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,679
Originally Posted by CurtainTwitcher View Post
^^^^^^^^^^ buybacks ^^^^^^^^^^^

Everything will be sold, the operational side of the business will continued to be starved, proceeds going to buy back shares. The large institutions will sell at the top to the bagholders who chase momentum and trend as the business will have already eaten itself.
Reputational risk remains with the sovereign.
Foreign nominee owners can walk away and the incumbent government is left with a carcass. This is precisely as was 'war gamed' by Macquarie and the APA consortium during the now failed private equity take-over.
Rated De is offline  
Old 11th May 2019, 03:00
  #889 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 298
Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
Reputational risk remains with the sovereign.
Foreign nominee owners can walk away and the incumbent government is left with a carcass. This is precisely as was 'war gamed' by Macquarie and the APA consortium during the now failed private equity take-over.
As has been said many times before: "The Assets will go Private and the Debt will go Public". The day of reckoning is looming.
busdriver007 is offline  
Old 11th May 2019, 09:24
  #890 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,679
Originally Posted by busdriver007 View Post
As has been said many times before: "The Assets will go Private and the Debt will go Public". The day of reckoning is looming.
Exogenous shocks are not unknown in the airline industry.
The company has prior experience at manufacturing crisis.

Qantas need a new fleet.
Rated De is offline  
Old 11th May 2019, 17:22
  #891 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brisbane
Age: 45
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
Exogenous shocks are not unknown in the airline industry.
The company has prior experience at manufacturing crisis.

Qantas need a new fleet.
rated de

I think you should buy a 12í tiny and go and listen to the cricket, there is so much more to life...
Bundy Bear is offline  
Old 12th May 2019, 01:55
  #892 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 298
What point are you trying to make? Qantas have announced that they will exclude the proceeds of the sale from their underlying profit figures, because it is a one-off, the same as in previous years. I don't think anyone making financial or investment decisions has ever been confused about the difference between underlying and statutory profits.

Qantas have plainly made a judgement that there is greater value in a sale and leaseback arrangement, between freeing up capital, not having to have in-house property managers, and not having to split focus between running an airline and managing a commercial real estate portfolio.

Do you think Qantas should be spending time and money making decisions about Krispy Kreme leases in T1 instead of buying a new fleet?

What has changed is that Leases are now on the balance sheet as debt(ftom 30/6/19) compounding the strategy of having off balance sheet debt where leases used to sit. This amplifies debt to equity ratios.Strong companies have kept Assets on the books. Time will tell.
busdriver007 is offline  
Old 12th May 2019, 03:00
  #893 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: S33E151
Posts: 974
Do you think Qantas should be spending time and money making decisions about Krispy Kreme leases in T1 instead of buying a new fleet?
Qantas should be spending time making money out of anything they can. If it's from hard assets then so much the better. Unfortunately hard assets are (and have been) easily converted into share buybacks
V-Jet is offline  
Old 12th May 2019, 03:46
  #894 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Harbour Master Place
Posts: 661
busdriver, that is the point made by Vjet. It's not about underlying vs one-off's, its what is done with the proceeds of the sales. Conversion of asset sales ---> Share Purchase and cancellation. Over 1/4 of the shares will have been cancelled since 2015 at the completing of this round.

ASX and Media Release Sydney, 21 February 2019 QANTAS DELIVERS STRONG FIRST HALF RESULT DESPITE HIGHER FUEL BILL
REWARDING SHAREHOLDERS
In addition to the $500 million shareholder return announced August 2018, the Qantas Board has announced a further return of up to $500 million. This comprises an interim franked dividend increased to 12 cents per share to be paid on 28 March 2019 with a record date of 5 March 2019, as well as an on-market share buy-back of up to $305 million. This additional buy-back is expected to bring the total reduction of shares on issue to 28 per cent since 2015.
CurtainTwitcher is offline  
Old 12th May 2019, 10:29
  #895 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,679
What has changed is that Leases are now on the balance sheet as debt(ftom 30/6/19) compounding the strategy of having off balance sheet debt where leases used to sit. This amplifies debt to equity ratios.Strong companies have kept Assets on the books. Time will tell.
Yes, the correct categorisation of lease obligation has changed. Stronger companies with clear foresight were well prepared. Perhaps, simply selling off what left of assets is strategy, albeit short term.
Using surplus cash flow to fund asset purchases, like a fleet is simply beyond Fort Fumble. Short term strategy far more profitable for the insiders with lots of share options.
Rated De is offline  
Old 13th May 2019, 09:57
  #896 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: New York
Posts: 5
it was executive bonuses and the option vesting dates
masonlim is offline  
Old 19th May 2019, 02:56
  #897 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,200
I’m hearing AIPA and Qantas are in discussions on a deal for the A350. I hope they do a better job this time and get the crew toilet and rest issues sorted before they agree to the money side of things.
dragon man is online now  
Old 19th May 2019, 04:27
  #898 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Equatorial
Age: 47
Posts: 668
Originally Posted by dragon man View Post
Iím hearing AIPA and Qantas are in discussions on a deal for the A350. I hope they do a better job this time and get the crew toilet and rest issues sorted before they agree to the money side of things.
Considering the 350 currently flies the longest sector Airbus no doubt will be the leading sunrise contender...
Global Aviator is online now  
Old 19th May 2019, 04:52
  #899 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,679
Originally Posted by Global Aviator View Post


Considering the 350 currently flies the longest sector Airbus no doubt will be the leading sunrise contender...
With over 260 in service already, by the time the 'world's most important managers' decide better to call it project sunset..Or bananarama.

Worth remembering that given the fleet metrics are so poor a new type is a given, but no doubt the intent will be somehow to lever down terms and conditions for the 'business case' Worked well last time!
Rated De is offline  
Old 19th May 2019, 06:07
  #900 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,200
Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
With over 260 in service already, by the time the 'world's most important managers' decide better to call it project sunset..Or bananarama.

Worth remembering that given the fleet metrics are so poor a new type is a given, but no doubt the intent will be somehow to lever down terms and conditions for the 'business case' Worked well last time!
Donít need to IMO they got that with the 787, so this time the same pay as the 787 and they will be happy I think.
dragon man is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.