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Qantas Link 717 cancellations

Old 20th Nov 2017, 06:33
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Qantas Link 717 cancellations

Most of us are aware you guys are on PIA for your EBA negotiations, but whatís the go with all the cancellations? Is it serviceability issues with the aircraft and refusing to accept the MELís? Lack of crew? Itís certainly firing up the regional cities, pax and QF ground staff.
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Old 20th Nov 2017, 08:29
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Was in a regional town recently that has the 717ís servicing it, and sadly nearly everyone you talk to says that if youíre booking Qantas, then allow extra days because cancellations are high. Bit sad really, and apparently Qantas doesnít give 2 shits about it. They just continue to charge exorbitant prices and come up with excuses.
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Old 20th Nov 2017, 10:09
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Qantas must be starting to ďgive 2 shitsĒ cause 737 open time this month is full of 717 flying.
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Old 20th Nov 2017, 18:54
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Morno,

Don't forget regional centres served by Dash8/Q400 services. Particularly if you are wanting to travel on an EK code-share booking.

That's where the fun for you REALLY begins when flight cancellations are taken into account and you aren't travelling on a QF booking.

Be prepared to be very patient under those circumstances.
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Old 20th Nov 2017, 21:15
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Qantas must be starting to ďgive 2 shitsĒ cause 737 open time this month is full of 717 flying.
Use of contractors is common practice; generates leverage against work forces and lowers unit cost whilst hoodwinking the paying passenger that the service standard is the same (hence the ticket price)

Sadly as the USA witnessed with Colgan Air 3407, airline management step away from accountability when the incessant push to lower terms and conditions generates big problems. Unlike Australia the FAA acted.

Protected Industrial Action is very difficult to take in many western economies, withdrawal of labour often impossible. Secondary boycott ensures unions are impotent to drive change. Didn't Qantas pilots take industrial action protected by Fair Work provisions only to have the government (who passed the legislation) side with management?

I personally applaud the Cobham pilots attempting to better their terms and conditions. The time is now, demographics and structural shortage can help get back what adversarial IR stripped away.


As for the 737 flying, replacing the 717, playing one group off against each other is management MO, one can simply not be available to help out management and step around it that way..
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Old 20th Nov 2017, 23:33
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If the truth were to escape, you would be amazed at why these cancellations really occurred. But the truth as released by the QF PR experts will suffice .


Now to the industrial action. I'm told the only PIA being used is of a very soft nature at this time and not nearly as disruptive to passengers as it may have been suggested. Choosing to retain ones time off rather than accepting a duty on a day off is within the rights of all pilots at all times, and while it is possible that there may be some difficulty in crewing flights, it also exposes a possible shortfall in numbers. The rest simply involve a less than economical approach to the operation, something available to all pilots all the time as well. The important thing here is that the Pilots are upholding the safety first mentality while applying the full force of the active PIA clauses and simultaneously retaining the QANTAS product to the greatest extent possible.


It is also important to note that the really damaging clauses remain in potentia, and to date have not been in widespread or protracted use. They remain in play should it be necessary to escalate matters. Obviously all parties are working to avoid that course of action.


Take from that what you will.
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Old 20th Nov 2017, 23:52
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SIUYA - the difference is that Q400 reliability is a lot better than 717's.

What is making things worse is that a lot on SLF's were already trying to avoid 717's and go for a Q400 or 737 - and this was before the current PIA
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Old 21st Nov 2017, 00:47
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If the truth were to escape, you would be amazed at why these cancellations really occurred. But the truth as released by the QF PR experts will suffice .
Oh, come on Blitzkrieger! Don't be such a tease, do tell.
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Old 21st Nov 2017, 01:48
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I personally applaud the Cobham pilots attempting to better their terms and conditions. The time is now, demographics and structural shortage can help get back what adversarial IR stripped away.
No it will end with them being unemployed when they lose their contract. QF will then either move the flying in house or outsource to another contractor. Network or Alliance would be more than capable, not to mention some other green fields operation that might pop up. There are alot of expats sniffing around right now and a DE command into a jet in Australia if you are financially secure would look pretty good. Especially if you throw in world wide staff travel etc.

Probably an extreme case but have a lot what happened to the BHP Tug Boat drivers in Port Hedland. Played industrial hardball won the fight but lost the war when they all got fired a month later.

The whole reason that large corporations use contract labour is that they can easily remove them if required.
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Old 21st Nov 2017, 02:15
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No operational spares

If AJ could get more 717s, he would. They break down just like any other aircraft. If a DHC8, 737, Airbus, etc.. goes u/s, there might be one in a hangar or sitting around on an apron that can be used instead with minimal or no inconvenience to the travelling public.

Cobham are short of crews just like every other airline and every other airline are cancelling flights for one reason or another as well.
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Old 21st Nov 2017, 02:32
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Network or Alliance would be more than capable
Ohhh c'mon now. with what metal? An F100? Whilst I agree with your theory and point you're trying to make, neither of those operators could realistically take over in a hurry not to mention their fleet would probably double the qantas group 'average' age.

I guess the 717 could be crewed by a different company again, but all that stuff takes time.
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Old 21st Nov 2017, 02:32
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About 20% of the FO workforce has left this year, many more waiting on start dates. Very few have been replaced.

A large number of captains (including sim check) have left, many more awaiting the outcome of this negotiation to decide on applications.

Flights are getting cancelled because good will (work on RDO's and extending) has been withdrawn. No crew = no flight.

No it will end with them being unemployed when they lose their contract. QF will then either move the flying in house or outsource to another contractor. Network or Alliance would be more than capable, not to mention some other green fields operation that might pop up
Ask the domestic mainline pilots how much "excess capacity" they have to absorb the extra 75,000 hours per year of flying the 717 does.

Ask the Qlink pilots how much "excess capacity" they have. Pretty sure that next year the 717 is again going to pickup up more QLD regional stuff due to "resource shortages" at the Link.

How long do you think it will take to find 200 pilots and train them up on such an orphan type? How much will that cost?

The Cobham contract will end, probably sooner than 2027, but that will be due to the end of life of the type.

The cost of "greenfielding" this operation by far outweighs the benefit of sticking it to a couple of hundred pilots trying to save their company. Yes, you heard me, SAVE COBHAM. Cobham seem incapable of grasping the fact that they cannot retain or attract pilots due to the sub par T&C's that they offer. Without being able to provide QANTAS with the product that they trade in, they are rendering themselves obsolete.
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Old 21st Nov 2017, 02:42
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You see...we'll give Network shiny new Airbus toys to repay you for your petulance and belligerence. Take that! And what is AIPA doing? Probably already offering concessions.
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Old 21st Nov 2017, 02:50
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Originally Posted by crosscutter View Post
You see...we'll give Network shiny new Airbus toys to repay you for your petulance and belligerence. Take that! And what is AIPA doing? Probably already offering concessions.
Those concessions will be the Jetstar tours of duty that Qantas want in the next EBA!!!!!
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Old 21st Nov 2017, 03:45
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Those concessions will be the Jetstar tours of duty that Qantas want in the next EBA!!!!!
You see...we'll give Network shiny new Airbus toys to repay you for your petulance and belligerence. Take that! And what is AIPA doing? Probably already offering concessions.
Yes as predictable as night following day. Against declining supply there is substantial execution risk and they know it! They will try it always works as the unions seem never to learn.
It is pretty easy to see, sit in Europe a bit and watch the game, Australian (southern hemisphere) IR out of sync but it is the same playbook. Ask US ALPA they saw it first.

Just do nothing, let Mr Joyce take it to the market again that the petulant staff are damaging the business and risking the airline,, 'terminal decline' anyone? Kamikazes?
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Old 21st Nov 2017, 04:22
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Cmon Nevil!!

Are you saying that Alanís inability to run an airline will be Alanís excuse to sack the moneymakers?

Roger that!
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Old 21st Nov 2017, 08:17
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I Don't think so, atm QF are struggling to recruit, bring on all this junk, at the end of the day they need more pilots, and what I have been hearing they are struggling to get them...
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Old 21st Nov 2017, 08:41
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atm QF are struggling to recruit, bring on all this junk, at the end of the day they need more pilots, and what I have been hearing they are struggling to get them...
Unless one is still convinced of the 'Australian exceptionalism' and 'Straya' is different, this is a global structural shortage. Qantas will feel it last, but feel it they will.

MBA's drove unit cost down (reducing terms and conditions), prohibitive training costs meant people found another point to their existence spending money for other qualifications.

Have a read of Ryanair threads. O'Leary is the poster boy of Adversarial IR, there are books written on it. It contributed to making flying an unattractive career.

It is in Europe now, a shortage of pilots, and accelerating as demographics ensures a sizable chunk of senior pilot workforce retires.

It is in the US

Pilot shortage: 600,000 new pilots needed over the next 20 years - are pilotless planes the answer?

Is America's airline industry headed for a major pilot shortage? | Fox Business

With unlimited supply 'down' was the way airline management drove terms and conditions, employing teams of HR/IR to devise ways to do it. Contractors, regional affiliates and the occasional 'terminal decline'

Supply is not unlimited. O'Leary making an embarrassment of himself for without his much maligned pilots, he oversees nothing but a bunch of expensive ground exhibits.

Qantas IR know no other way, but over time they may need to realise globalisation works two ways.

I personally hope the work life balance is restored for pilots the world over.
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Old 21st Nov 2017, 11:46
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So Jetstarís PIA was public knowledge when it was threatened several years ago, whatís Cobham pilots action?
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Old 21st Nov 2017, 12:57
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Are you saying that Alanís inability to run an airline will be Alanís excuse to sack the moneymakers
Well if he can get another contractor to do it for less, why not? Especially if the current ones canít fullfill their obligations. Ultimately it can always be brought in house which is what happened to a lot of the US outsourced flying.

Which goes back to why industrial action as a contractor is futile.
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