Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

BNE fog this evening.

Old 9th Jul 2017, 08:19
  #41 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 111
Most likely they made money with all the extra parking fees.
Not this time. Quite a few departures made it out so in the end the tarmac in Brissy was almost empty. I'm glad I wasn't trying to commute out of Brissy yesterday. No aircraft until the first arrivals from elsewhere and very few spare seats all day.

Last edited by C441; 9th Jul 2017 at 12:39.
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Old 9th Jul 2017, 12:24
  #42 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: PA
Age: 56
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Currently, there is no CAT III GBAS for commercial use. While the broadcast is good for CAT III, it still has not been certified for general use. CAT III GBAS is in use in some military operations.

There is no CAT III RNP AR. RNP is 250 HAT.

When looking at ILS vs GBAS, we are using the following cost estimates, although it certainly varies per location:

Typically, the cost for an ILS per runway end is around $500,000, with about $50,000 per year in operating costs. ( per CT, I guess the $75,000 is where the FAA is...)

The cost for a GBAS system, itself is about $1.5 million, with another $1 million for installation and validation exercises, for up to 23 runway ends. Annual costs were about $50,000 per year for the entire system.

It can also handle ARR and DEP from same runway end. ILS cannot do ARR and DEP from same end.

The bottom line is that with 4 runways ends, ILS and GBAS are about equal in cost to install. Annual costs escalate rapidly with ILS.

GBAS is a very accurate GPS correction that broadcast as a signal to the ac, and can be repeated to get distance. Unlike ILS beams, there are no issues with multiplex from structures or reflectivity from ac on the ground or in the air.

A GBAS system can broadcast multiple displaced threshold solutions for each runway end. This can be used for wake mitigation strategies. (or simply manage displaced thresholds) ILS does not have this capability.

We have GBAS broadcasts that include a turn to final. That is in validation, as well as the other solutions such as RNP AR transitions to GBAS final.. No way an ILS beams could include a turn, or an acceptable transition from RNP to ILS final.

What I find interesting is that Smartpath is 50% owned by ASA. I would think that GBAS would be all over AUS, go figure.

Last edited by underfire; 9th Jul 2017 at 12:36.
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Old 9th Jul 2017, 12:35
  #43 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
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When looking at ILS vs GBAS, we are using the following cost estimate
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Old 9th Jul 2017, 13:43
  #44 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 356
Mostly likely and it cost BNE airport $0.
Exactly. Privatised airports have no incentive to invest in ILS installations. Or in fact anything to improve safety or reliability. Just more car parks and more shops.

Selling off public assets is a short term money grab with a terrible, permanent legacy.

Until there's a big prang, nothing will change. Mildura was the wake up call no-one is heeding.
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Old 9th Jul 2017, 13:47
  #45 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 1,095
Airlines should start taking these Airports to court for taking them for a ride. There has been small whispers from QF/VA in regards to the lack of infrastructure in this country but they appear to be very selective with commentary.

The only one with balls so far was Tiger Airways a few years back. Took Sydney Airport to court for the complete lack of facilities on offer for what they were paying to the Airport, and they won the case. The point was made why are we paying for such s*** facilities with complete lack of support from Sydney Airport Management, when we pay less in HKG and get exceptional facilities.
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Old 10th Jul 2017, 04:09
  #46 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
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Selling off public assets is a short term money grab with a terrible, permanent legacy.
I completely agree. One small point, they are leased from the federal government. They are generally fifty year leases. Perhaps in a few years there should be a push to take them back..."BRING THEM HOME"
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Old 10th Jul 2017, 08:29
  #47 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 13
Yerzz. Well, I can recall going down to Eaglefarm one morning 0200 or so and immediately going home - below take-off minimums and certain to remain so for many hours. Secondary consideration, no take-off alternate due fog S to Sydney N to Townsville and W to Alice. ILS - none of any kind at Townsville until the new boys arrived c. 1989. Are we alone in this? LHR a few years back, temps around zero and a bit of a shower... they have THREE de-icing trucks on the airport. So, hundreds of aircraft overnighted their pax. We gave up at midnight and finished up in some magic little pub up the Thames valley somewhere which I have been searching for ever since, and
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Old 10th Jul 2017, 08:38
  #48 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne
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Unlike ILS beams, there are no issues with multiplex...

That would be multipath.
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Old 10th Jul 2017, 10:17
  #49 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: QLD - where drivers are yet to realise that the left lane goes to their destination too.
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Privatised airports have no incentive to invest in ILS installations
What makes you think that the government would have any more incentive. The government tried to make them into businesses (in the form of a GBE ie FAC), couldn't manage it, so leased them off. The government has been pretty woeful at running anything so far.
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