Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Virgin loses $767K a day.....for how much longer?

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Virgin loses $767K a day.....for how much longer?

Old 20th May 2017, 10:03
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Suva
Posts: 3
Virgin loses $767K a day.....for how much longer?

Virgin Australia third quarter loss widens to $69 million | afr.com

69 Mil in 3 months. Going the need some more economy X head rests me thinks. Or maybe we can load the front hold with cash from HNA in HKG?
AviationParasite is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 10:32
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 357
Originally Posted by AviationParasite View Post
Going the need some more economy X head rests me thinks.
Virgin used to have premium service (compared to Jetstar) and they actually flew to their timetables.

Unfortunately some bright spark decided a race to the bottom with Jetstar was the was forward, and now the results speak for themselves, as people vote with their feet.
p.j.m is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 10:39
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 571
as people vote with their feet.
Passengers AND Staff!
The Bullwinkle is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 11:19
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 298
Virgin loses $767K a day.....for how much longer?
For as long as HNA are prepared to launder their cash through VA...

JB is spruiking his brilliance as the cash position has gone up and the debt has gone down while the losses pile up. It sure is a magic pudding! Maybe he should work for the Federal Government, would solve our debt and deficit position while increasing spending!
Falling Leaf is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 12:21
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 2,738
For as long as HNA are prepared to launder their cash through VA...
You may need to research how "laundering money" works.

The idea is to actually keep some of it after it is "cleaned".

Last edited by Icarus2001; 20th May 2017 at 15:42.
Icarus2001 is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 12:27
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: melbourne
Posts: 241
One of my contacts in business in the middle Kingdom has told me that there are now more capital controls on free flowing money out of China. Might be a dry old time if you are waiting for the cash to come from there.
coaldemon is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 18:51
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 589
Originally Posted by Falling Leaf View Post
For as long as HNA are prepared to launder their cash through VA...

JB is spruiking his brilliance as the cash position has gone up and the debt has gone down while the losses pile up. It sure is a magic pudding! Maybe he should work for the Federal Government, would solve our debt and deficit position while increasing spending!
But the debt has only gone down because they've paid it off with additional cash injections... how did this guy ever get where he is without balancing a cheque book or being able to add two and two... do they really think we're that dumb that we don't realise just by reading the reports in the news that extra cash has been piled in repeatedly.
There needs to be someone do a case study for a PhD in how a person comes into a company, spends billions it doesn't have creating lounges and cabins that it can't afford - and lounges that are cold and uninviting mind you - and run up losses for seven years and continually qualify for a bonus. Many said this bloke wasn't much chop at QF and just was in the right place at the right time to get promoted and maybe they're right... the last 7 years has proven beyond doubt why he didn't get the top job at QF.
I don't know what it is, must be something to do with the Dunning-Kreuger effect.
AerialPerspective is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 21:07
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 298
I find the complete lack of any meaningful journalism on the issue also interesting...

All there was from AFR, SBS and the Australian Aviation magazine was a cut and paste of the press release... I guess that's what passes for journalism in this country now; just let the companies with their PR departments write their own news for public consumption....

Would be nice if some investigative journalist who actually understood business to do a spread in the weekend Australian.

Anyone else noted that the Aviation section is not what it used to be, all airports, MH70 and drones these days.
Falling Leaf is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 21:09
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 298
You may need to research how "laundering money" works.

The idea is to actually keep some of it after it is "cleaned".
LOL - nice one. And if VA don't want to pay tax they could at least break even.
Falling Leaf is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 21:56
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: dubai
Posts: 29
Branson had to watch the Virgin America brand fold under Alaska Airlines, and wouldn't be too happy with this one right now with such appalling loss of capital requiring cash injections to pay the bills.

Complex diversity issues with Tiger, high internal operational costs are things this company needs to manage ASAP.

Virgin Blue were sailing very close to the wind prior to Ansett's demise - the current iteration is heading the same way without a massive refocus on core business.
Rashid Bacon is offline  
Old 20th May 2017, 23:31
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Harbour Master Place
Posts: 589
I find the complete lack of any meaningful journalism on the issue also interesting...


All there was from AFR, SBS and the Australian Aviation magazine was a cut and paste of the press release... I guess that's what passes for journalism in this country now; just let the companies with their PR departments write their own news for public consumption....
“Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything else is public relations.”
-- George Orwell
The answers to your question are covered here: Journalism just a PR exercise? & Over half your news is spin


Here's a snip from the first article:
WENDY BACON: We found that over 50 per cent was generated by public relations. Now on some of those stories there had been some work done by journalists. But often pretty much they were just straight PR.
CurtainTwitcher is offline  
Old 21st May 2017, 01:15
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Doomagee
Age: 6
Posts: 640
I've noted The Australian doing more like infomercials on Virgin.

Sydney Morning Herald or Fin Review are a better option.

4 Corners or The Investigators in the 80s were a favourite of mine.

Who can really tell what the numbers mean. What I do know is that QF are posting gigantic profits nearly every single quarter. Their share price has gone from just over $1 to a close of $4.58 within the last 3 years.

People like to say QF is all creative accounting. I say brand new 787's rolling in and starting new routes isn't creative accounting, it's a reality.

I completely disagree with those who are already criticising the new guy. There is indeed a change of guard going on and some of the new top jobs are going to some highly regarded people (SA included).


Berealgetreal is offline  
Old 21st May 2017, 04:34
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: deepest darkest recess of your mind
Posts: 997
Why would Branson give a shit? He sold the majority of his shares years ago. He's down to 5%. Any way, to answer the question posed, at that rate and according to the last bank statement released by Borghetti, about 1900 days, I guess.
porch monkey is offline  
Old 21st May 2017, 05:58
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 589
Originally Posted by Berealgetreal View Post
I've noted The Australian doing more like infomercials on Virgin.

Sydney Morning Herald or Fin Review are a better option.

4 Corners or The Investigators in the 80s were a favourite of mine.

Who can really tell what the numbers mean. What I do know is that QF are posting gigantic profits nearly every single quarter. Their share price has gone from just over $1 to a close of $4.58 within the last 3 years.

People like to say QF is all creative accounting. I say brand new 787's rolling in and starting new routes isn't creative accounting, it's a reality.

I completely disagree with those who are already criticising the new guy. There is indeed a change of guard going on and some of the new top jobs are going to some highly regarded people (SA included).
Some inaccuracies in the Sandilands article... firstly the bit about Ansett revenue management... they may not have been managing it well but they didn't have an 'inferior' RM tool to Qantas. Ansett bought the British Airways BABS system in 1991 or 2, including RS13 Revenue software... they implemented it over a two year period. Qantas similarly bought BABS a year or two later and also over a 2 year period integrated it. QF's product was identical to AN, they just used it better (aside from some pretty wizzy and clever software additions to the airport side of the system, QUBE was almost identical to Merlin DCS). AN and NZ then set up a project to acquire QUBE from Qantas and modify it to a new replacement for Merlin/Carina... it never went ahead.
Also, Qantas did not secure "60 unwanted" 737-800 from American's order book, it was more like 16 and then Qantas ordered/optioned more. So much like 'a stone skipping across a pond' these days with journalists who I think just repeat common misconceptions as facts rather than do actual research. It's not possible to be an airline/aviation expert in this context unless one has actually worked in an airline.
AerialPerspective is offline  
Old 21st May 2017, 07:23
  #15 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Suva
Posts: 3
True about 1900 days. I forgot the Fed might raise interest rates 0.25% and since most of 1.5-2 Billion in debt is probably in USD that about 5 million-ish in interest. Plus FX drop of AUD to USD to about 70c. So (carry one one, add the word underlying to every statement) about $700K a day underlying?

Originally Posted by porch monkey View Post
Why would Branson give a shit? He sold the majority of his shares years ago. He's down to 5%. Any way, to answer the question posed, at that rate and according to the last bank statement released by Borghetti, about 1900 days, I guess.
AviationParasite is offline  
Old 21st May 2017, 10:57
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2
The old game change, will be game over if the money flow doesn't reverse soon.
WasATrolleyDolly is offline  
Old 21st May 2017, 12:10
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NSW
Posts: 234
Back to reading other people's mail JB.....
TBM-Legend is offline  
Old 21st May 2017, 12:57
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 571
Originally Posted by TBM-Legend View Post
Back to reading other people's mail JB.....
I wouldn't even hire him for a job in the mail room!
The Bullwinkle is offline  
Old 21st May 2017, 13:53
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 344
How can one company continue to bleed so much cash without shutting up shop?
Engineer_aus is offline  
Old 21st May 2017, 14:19
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: All over the Planet
Posts: 758
Is the game plan to hurt Qantas?
Ken Borough is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.