Has Joyce forgotten how to count? The end of ME transits?
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The 'lost decade' at Qantas sums it up for pilots...
The point of this thread is to show the accounting shell game. those in the know are aware all companies play them with assets, jurisdiction and timings.
The Qantas exception is to claim that the Qantas International business was 'terminal' then 'transformed' If one takes out the impact of fuel (of which QF burns a lot per ASK due fleet composition) and a management chosen timing write down of fleet, the 'transformation' is highly dubious.
Those of us looking (transformation benefits) at it have not found substantive documentation detailing precisely what has been saved, what is present are statements in glossy brochures with no substantive breakdown, not a shred of it....
The EK alliance deserves exactly the same scrutiny. In the other thread, examining the consolidated accounts, there is not a financial upside. This thread is suggesting that publicly available information suggests there is no passenger upside. The Asian pivot and JQ expansion needed capital and shrinking QF (circumventing the QSA) is how they did it.
If one can be bothered, the plethora of data provided on passengers carried, the ports flown to and the airline that carried them also suggest strongly there is no upside.
An analysis of statements made mostly by Joyce, relating to the EK alliance speak exclusively of customer benefits, access to European ports and so forth. If one examines the ASX listing rules and indeed the Corporations Act 2001, perhaps that explains the reason why..
Some readers of this forum may be happily comfortable flying the Pacific protected to a degree by seniority. For them aviation was a different animal than today. They needn't bother, but to those who wasted their years at Qantas, myself included, being financially literate is a necessary addition in an industry, and company in particular where management manipulation of people, figures and the customer is a fine art.
The point of this thread is to show the accounting shell game. those in the know are aware all companies play them with assets, jurisdiction and timings.
The Qantas exception is to claim that the Qantas International business was 'terminal' then 'transformed' If one takes out the impact of fuel (of which QF burns a lot per ASK due fleet composition) and a management chosen timing write down of fleet, the 'transformation' is highly dubious.
Those of us looking (transformation benefits) at it have not found substantive documentation detailing precisely what has been saved, what is present are statements in glossy brochures with no substantive breakdown, not a shred of it....
The EK alliance deserves exactly the same scrutiny. In the other thread, examining the consolidated accounts, there is not a financial upside. This thread is suggesting that publicly available information suggests there is no passenger upside. The Asian pivot and JQ expansion needed capital and shrinking QF (circumventing the QSA) is how they did it.
If one can be bothered, the plethora of data provided on passengers carried, the ports flown to and the airline that carried them also suggest strongly there is no upside.
An analysis of statements made mostly by Joyce, relating to the EK alliance speak exclusively of customer benefits, access to European ports and so forth. If one examines the ASX listing rules and indeed the Corporations Act 2001, perhaps that explains the reason why..
Some readers of this forum may be happily comfortable flying the Pacific protected to a degree by seniority. For them aviation was a different animal than today. They needn't bother, but to those who wasted their years at Qantas, myself included, being financially literate is a necessary addition in an industry, and company in particular where management manipulation of people, figures and the customer is a fine art.
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Qantas just made two of the largest profits in its 95 year history.
1.8 billon and 1.4 billion respectively.
Alan Joyce has just made two of his largest personal bonuses apart from 2007.
As Derfred made reference, Alan's free granted options are worth more than 40 million dollars. Joyce will pull close to or over 100 million dollars by the time he goes. Not bad for a business that we are told is "Risky, marginal, highly competitive".
The Terminal decline was just an accounting write down and a tool to drive concessions from staff and unions.
Every work group took an 18 month freeze.
The pilots took the biggest reduction to "win" the 8 787 orders that will replace 5 Jumbos. No overtime on 19.5 Hour duties, no night credits, lower overall take home pay. Yes in ten years when it May slowly replace he A330 to Asia it may Be line ball with 2015 pay in 2028.
Still waiting for that "big" 787 further orders announcement? Let me know when it happens. Ain't that stock market spooked easily.
Click your fingers and the "Terminal Decline" became an amazing "Turnaround" and QF hit two profit records in a row.
Even if Qantas continued making record profits, the pilot Shortage got even worse, Contract pilots in China made 500k a year, Qantas pilots would reduce their pay, work harder and end up worse off just to get any new aircraft because they fall for management rumours, get easily spooked and race each other to the bottom for the next shiny toy.
Qantas management are smarter than pilots, have excellent strategies to know your mindset to get concessions from you, and are ultimately superior negotiators.
Pilots are experts at securing a worse deal during the best times.
But there will be pressures, declines, market uncertainty etc etc during the next replacement Agreement and QF and Alan will win again. Bigly.
1.8 billon and 1.4 billion respectively.
Alan Joyce has just made two of his largest personal bonuses apart from 2007.
As Derfred made reference, Alan's free granted options are worth more than 40 million dollars. Joyce will pull close to or over 100 million dollars by the time he goes. Not bad for a business that we are told is "Risky, marginal, highly competitive".
The Terminal decline was just an accounting write down and a tool to drive concessions from staff and unions.
Every work group took an 18 month freeze.
The pilots took the biggest reduction to "win" the 8 787 orders that will replace 5 Jumbos. No overtime on 19.5 Hour duties, no night credits, lower overall take home pay. Yes in ten years when it May slowly replace he A330 to Asia it may Be line ball with 2015 pay in 2028.
Still waiting for that "big" 787 further orders announcement? Let me know when it happens. Ain't that stock market spooked easily.
Click your fingers and the "Terminal Decline" became an amazing "Turnaround" and QF hit two profit records in a row.
Even if Qantas continued making record profits, the pilot Shortage got even worse, Contract pilots in China made 500k a year, Qantas pilots would reduce their pay, work harder and end up worse off just to get any new aircraft because they fall for management rumours, get easily spooked and race each other to the bottom for the next shiny toy.
Qantas management are smarter than pilots, have excellent strategies to know your mindset to get concessions from you, and are ultimately superior negotiators.
Pilots are experts at securing a worse deal during the best times.
But there will be pressures, declines, market uncertainty etc etc during the next replacement Agreement and QF and Alan will win again. Bigly.
The 'lost decade' at Qantas sums it up for pilots...
The point of this thread is to show the accounting shell game. those in the know are aware all companies play them with assets, jurisdiction and timings.
The Qantas exception is to claim that the Qantas International business was 'terminal' then 'transformed' If one takes out the impact of fuel (of which QF burns a lot per ASK due fleet composition) and a management chosen timing write down of fleet, the 'transformation' is highly dubious.
Those of us looking (transformation benefits) at it have not found substantive documentation detailing precisely what has been saved, what is present are statements in glossy brochures with no substantive breakdown, not a shred of it....
The EK alliance deserves exactly the same scrutiny. In the other thread, examining the consolidated accounts, there is not a financial upside. This thread is suggesting that publicly available information suggests there is no passenger upside. The Asian pivot and JQ expansion needed capital and shrinking QF (circumventing the QSA) is how they did it.
If one can be bothered, the plethora of data provided on passengers carried, the ports flown to and the airline that carried them also suggest strongly there is no upside.
An analysis of statements made mostly by Joyce, relating to the EK alliance speak exclusively of customer benefits, access to European ports and so forth. If one examines the ASX listing rules and indeed the Corporations Act 2001, perhaps that explains the reason why..
Some readers of this forum may be happily comfortable flying the Pacific protected to a degree by seniority. For them aviation was a different animal than today. They needn't bother, but to those who wasted their years at Qantas, myself included, being financially literate is a necessary addition in an industry, and company in particular where management manipulation of people, figures and the customer is a fine art.
The point of this thread is to show the accounting shell game. those in the know are aware all companies play them with assets, jurisdiction and timings.
The Qantas exception is to claim that the Qantas International business was 'terminal' then 'transformed' If one takes out the impact of fuel (of which QF burns a lot per ASK due fleet composition) and a management chosen timing write down of fleet, the 'transformation' is highly dubious.
Those of us looking (transformation benefits) at it have not found substantive documentation detailing precisely what has been saved, what is present are statements in glossy brochures with no substantive breakdown, not a shred of it....
The EK alliance deserves exactly the same scrutiny. In the other thread, examining the consolidated accounts, there is not a financial upside. This thread is suggesting that publicly available information suggests there is no passenger upside. The Asian pivot and JQ expansion needed capital and shrinking QF (circumventing the QSA) is how they did it.
If one can be bothered, the plethora of data provided on passengers carried, the ports flown to and the airline that carried them also suggest strongly there is no upside.
An analysis of statements made mostly by Joyce, relating to the EK alliance speak exclusively of customer benefits, access to European ports and so forth. If one examines the ASX listing rules and indeed the Corporations Act 2001, perhaps that explains the reason why..
Some readers of this forum may be happily comfortable flying the Pacific protected to a degree by seniority. For them aviation was a different animal than today. They needn't bother, but to those who wasted their years at Qantas, myself included, being financially literate is a necessary addition in an industry, and company in particular where management manipulation of people, figures and the customer is a fine art.
In any case, the one thing that I recall standing out from the period roughly 1995 through to mid 2000s is that on many occasions the accounts in the summary mentioned that "... the Company's International operation continues to perform strongly and carry the rest of the group..." or words to that effect... this was obviously saying that domestic was struggling (TN of course was a loss-maker before QF took it over or in years it made profits they were nothing like what it should have made)... the interesting thing is that, unless I'm mistaken, International performance was weighted by it's contribution to domestic in terms of it's share of revenue/profit from oncarriage passengers... e.g. domestically located pax buying tickets on QF DOM is QF DOM's money and interline business won from other airlines bringing people into the country but those that originated where QF INTL did the selling, etc. were accounted for against QF INTL.
The only thing that's changed is that it suited the narrative to make International a 'basket case' by saying it "... hasn't met the cost of its capital since the mid nineties".
The arrant stupidity of that statement is profound... how is it that it couldn't meet that cost of capital if the company's own reports were championing it for it's substantial contribution to results.
The other stupidity is that even if such were true, it is not ever able to in an environment where it feeds the domestic network and delivers the majority of its revenue (or at least a substantial amount) and has to buy very big, very long range aeroplanes to do so... I'd say there's an argument for DOM to pay its share of the QF INTL capital due to the reward it receives in return from all those oncarriage pax.
It suited the narrative to change the story because they wanted to make it look like a basket case in order to get something else.
It's no different to Strong claiming he'd "turned the airline around" when the profit went from something like $180m to $450m within a year... of course, what he didn't mention was that the only reason that happened was because Ward had to raise a very expensive loan to buy Australian for $400m to ensure they got it and didn't have to set up their own domestic operation from scratch rather than let it go to a competitor overseas airline AND between his departure and Strong starting, the government floated the airline and the Keating Govt. 'gave' $1.1bn of the proceeds back to Qantas as a capital injection (the money was chicken feed for the Commonwealth which administered an economy with GDP approach a trillion dollars and it satisfied a condition that Keating agreed to that the company be properly capitalized which allowed him to get WAY over the final price from BA for their 25%.
Modern management (as opposed to previous QF CEOs who usually had worked their way up and loved the company) is based on spin and 'perception' or rather creating a perception to suite the reality that they wish to establish.
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International
.When the Australian dollar is weaker International historically performs very well with increased international inbound tourists visiting Australia. Cost base is also very competitive. Dixon always said that it acts as a shock absorber in times especially when the Australian economy is weaker.
International struggled after 2008 till 2014 for many reasons. Primarily the high Australian Dollar and sky high fuel prices, with close to the oldest fleet in the world. Gareth Evans actually said it was the perfect storm.
.International is essential in having a reliable source of feed to Domestic operations and Jetstar. Remove it and you starve it of much of its feed.
EK flies to every capital city except Darwin,Cairns and Hobart so it's feed into QF domestic is negligible. Hence Qantas International is vital in order to feed QF and JQ domestic with certainty.
.The majority of Frequent Flyer points are earned Domestically but redeemed and desired on QF international routes. Look at the business and first upgrade requests on any Qantas flights to LHR,LAX, DXB,DFW,HNL,SFO,SIN, HKG etc. Hence the very profitable FF business is dependent on QF International. The frequent flyer program is not desirable or sustainable without a decent Qantas International
.In summary the International part of the business is as small as it can be now.
International struggled after 2008 till 2014 for many reasons. Primarily the high Australian Dollar and sky high fuel prices, with close to the oldest fleet in the world. Gareth Evans actually said it was the perfect storm.
.International is essential in having a reliable source of feed to Domestic operations and Jetstar. Remove it and you starve it of much of its feed.
EK flies to every capital city except Darwin,Cairns and Hobart so it's feed into QF domestic is negligible. Hence Qantas International is vital in order to feed QF and JQ domestic with certainty.
.The majority of Frequent Flyer points are earned Domestically but redeemed and desired on QF international routes. Look at the business and first upgrade requests on any Qantas flights to LHR,LAX, DXB,DFW,HNL,SFO,SIN, HKG etc. Hence the very profitable FF business is dependent on QF International. The frequent flyer program is not desirable or sustainable without a decent Qantas International
.In summary the International part of the business is as small as it can be now.
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What are you suggesting Gamechanger, that you simply can't look at things as isolated, narrow accounting silo's? Goodness, whats next? Synergies and the Network Effect?
Last edited by CurtainTwitcher; 7th May 2017 at 00:37.
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Exactly.
Joyce will talk down International during EBA times and sing it's record returns on equity, profitability and turnaround come bonus time.
Fact is domestic, Jetstar and Frequent Flyer are screwed without its feed inbound and outbound, without it being the minimum the size it is today.
Qantas can't rely on codeshares to do everything. And if you look at EK it gives Qantas minimal feed in.
Admittedly QF has shrunk A LOT but it won't get significantly smaller than it is now.
Joyce will talk down International during EBA times and sing it's record returns on equity, profitability and turnaround come bonus time.
Fact is domestic, Jetstar and Frequent Flyer are screwed without its feed inbound and outbound, without it being the minimum the size it is today.
Qantas can't rely on codeshares to do everything. And if you look at EK it gives Qantas minimal feed in.
Admittedly QF has shrunk A LOT but it won't get significantly smaller than it is now.
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AerialPerspective and Gamechanger you have both made same big statements regarding QF Domestic reliance on QF International. Can either of you provide raw data numbers of inbound and outbound feed from INT to DOM? Number of pax fed between INT and DOM versus total number of DOM pax carried for the last year (or any recent year) will do. That way the rest of us can make up our own minds.
I see it as significant. Yes you can write the comment off as an aside, but look at it this way. 10-15 years ago (certainly 20) it would have been inconceivable not to have at the VERY least considered Qf, most simply purchased Qf as a matter of course, if not partly national pride. Nowadays, not so much.
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On October 11, 2011, Joyce telegraphed the game to the International Air Services Commission. The written correspondence is public record.
This was just before the lockout, you know the one Joyce thought up by himself, just on the day?
The application indicates that the Qantas International network by DESIGN was to reduce to TWO daily London slots.(what does it look like now?)
All of the biliateral agreements to Europe other than those TWO were to be flown by Group subsidiary (effectively granted national carrier designation: Jetstar!)
It didn't work, Boston Bruce left and Joyce rushed off to Dubai, desperate to plug a massive hole in the numbers...of his own making...The EK alliance provides very little if anything at the threshold of benefit. What it did do was give some domestic feed into Australia.However Qantas choose not to substantiate how much. It is likely it is negligible and less than they killed off from Europe. Desperate to kill the company IR style they did not comprehend the 'interconnectedness' of the company and therefore a hastily convened 'alliance' was signed....
The tide will again recede. Qantas under Joyce always swam naked. Joyce's 'alliance' makes neither money nor many passengers for the 'group'. His stupidity and arrogance only outdone by lack of critical analysis and laziness of many, including the regulators,parliament, the media, and indeed many staff.
This was just before the lockout, you know the one Joyce thought up by himself, just on the day?
The application indicates that the Qantas International network by DESIGN was to reduce to TWO daily London slots.(what does it look like now?)
All of the biliateral agreements to Europe other than those TWO were to be flown by Group subsidiary (effectively granted national carrier designation: Jetstar!)
It didn't work, Boston Bruce left and Joyce rushed off to Dubai, desperate to plug a massive hole in the numbers...of his own making...The EK alliance provides very little if anything at the threshold of benefit. What it did do was give some domestic feed into Australia.However Qantas choose not to substantiate how much. It is likely it is negligible and less than they killed off from Europe. Desperate to kill the company IR style they did not comprehend the 'interconnectedness' of the company and therefore a hastily convened 'alliance' was signed....
The tide will again recede. Qantas under Joyce always swam naked. Joyce's 'alliance' makes neither money nor many passengers for the 'group'. His stupidity and arrogance only outdone by lack of critical analysis and laziness of many, including the regulators,parliament, the media, and indeed many staff.
On October 11, 2011, Joyce telegraphed the game to the International Air Services Commission. The written correspondence is public record.
This was just before the lockout, you know the one Joyce thought up by himself, just on the day?
The application indicates that the Qantas International network by DESIGN was to reduce to TWO daily London slots.(what does it look like now?)
All of the biliateral agreements to Europe other than those TWO were to be flown by Group subsidiary (effectively granted national carrier designation: Jetstar!)
It didn't work, Boston Bruce left and Joyce rushed off to Dubai, desperate to plug a massive hole in the numbers...of his own making...The EK alliance provides very little if anything at the threshold of benefit. What it did do was give some domestic feed into Australia.However Qantas choose not to substantiate how much. It is likely it is negligible and less than they killed off from Europe. Desperate to kill the company IR style they did not comprehend the 'interconnectedness' of the company and therefore a hastily convened 'alliance' was signed....
The tide will again recede. Qantas under Joyce always swam naked. Joyce's 'alliance' makes neither money nor many passengers for the 'group'. His stupidity and arrogance only outdone by lack of critical analysis and laziness of many, including the regulators,parliament, the media, and indeed many staff.
This was just before the lockout, you know the one Joyce thought up by himself, just on the day?
The application indicates that the Qantas International network by DESIGN was to reduce to TWO daily London slots.(what does it look like now?)
All of the biliateral agreements to Europe other than those TWO were to be flown by Group subsidiary (effectively granted national carrier designation: Jetstar!)
It didn't work, Boston Bruce left and Joyce rushed off to Dubai, desperate to plug a massive hole in the numbers...of his own making...The EK alliance provides very little if anything at the threshold of benefit. What it did do was give some domestic feed into Australia.However Qantas choose not to substantiate how much. It is likely it is negligible and less than they killed off from Europe. Desperate to kill the company IR style they did not comprehend the 'interconnectedness' of the company and therefore a hastily convened 'alliance' was signed....
The tide will again recede. Qantas under Joyce always swam naked. Joyce's 'alliance' makes neither money nor many passengers for the 'group'. His stupidity and arrogance only outdone by lack of critical analysis and laziness of many, including the regulators,parliament, the media, and indeed many staff.
Things change V-Jet. Some people don't buy Australian for whatever reason. It's none of my business why they do or don't and I don't care if they decide that's their chosen path. I'm well past someone trying to throw Singapore Airlines or Virgin in my face, if they haven't considered Qantas, nothing I say or do will change their mind because they have already made up their mind.
Reason??? Dad had company cars in the 70s and 80s that were high-spec Ford and Holden and they were utter garbage. We have always had Japanese cars, we've nearly always flown Qantas, we've always bought imported TVs, we've always bought Australian lawnmowers though, for example. Who people fly with and what they buy is much a matter of personal taste. I don't care if anyone chooses to fly VA over QF, I don't, I always fly QF and there are many that will do that too. The move away from QF has less to do with QF and more to do with government policy allowing anyone to fly here and giving away bilateral rights like they were confetti whereas other countries guard their rights and don't throw them away. That and the splitting of QF INTL traffic ex Australia off to JQ has reduced their percentage.
When stationed overseas in the past I've seen how people that will pay the lowest price available somehow think when things go south that Qantas and the Australian government owes them a ride home when their wonderful overseas airline has abandoned them,
Gentlemen, I didn't reject Qantas, Qantas rejected me.
Qantas has systematically rejected a lot of Australians like me who were once prepared to even pay a premium to fly on what was then our beloved national airline.
To give you an idea, there was nothing like the feeling of relief and relaxation after spending a month on business in Europe one felt on boarding a QF 747 at LHR and hearing a friendly Australian accent from the steward and being offered an Australian beer before takeoff! I was already home! People my age who travelled in Europe and Asia in the Seventies and Eighties will agree with me. Then of course there were those relaxed but confident announcements from the cockpit, often with a little understated humour thrown in, from what we believed were the worlds best airline pilots.
That is what Qantas had - the admiration of a nation.
Then the rot set in. The Board referred to by Whitlam as "The Australian equivalent of the house of lords" was taken over by speculators with no interest in Aviation per se and hired CEO's who had nil experience in airline operations. They compounded this by letting narcissists into management ranks.
Qantas then decided at board level that it was an international business first and foremost and that any. consideration of its Australian roots or Australian national interest in its business strategy was unwarranted (until it wants to be bailed out).
Despite the fact that direct international flight access is pivotal to economic development of every region on earth, Qantas remains Sydney-centric, which disadvantaged every other state capital until overseas competition broke down the doors. I will not fly to Sydney for the "privilege" of flying QF, neither will anyone else.
Then there are the domestic markets Qantas killed to destinations like Hamilton Island and Maroochydore. Then there is Jetstar. Then there is the insane cost cutting. Then there is the focus on business and first class as "profitable", consigning the bulk of economy passengers to a slave ship level of comfort and service.
Then there was Margaret Jackson and the takeover ploy that failed.
Then there were the high profile labour disputes where the CEO shut down the airline.
Then there were the disastrous expensive QF business class flights I took to/from LAX where the customer service was ****house, as was the punctuality, both ways.
Then there were the contract non Australian staff.
Then there was the destruction of the Qantas world beating Australian maintenance and overhaul organisation and the offshoring of that work to lowest costs unreliable third world countries, I wonder how many poor Mexicans are going to work on QF A 380's maintenance at LAX?
Then there is the continued behaviour of Qantas management as "nobility", giving each other bottles of Penfolds Grange, who see the airlines current profitability as a result of their superior talents and not as a gift from collapsed oil prices.
Then there is the alliance which means I always have to fly via Dubai and will never get a seamless trip in a QF aircraft to Europe ever again.
My current perception is that Qantas is focussed on corporate clients, starting with the Australian Government, and that an occasional old fart retiree like me is not a 'valued customer" and will be treated accordingly, business class or not. I do not wish to pay again for a premium product and receive a ****house travel experience, which is now what I expect from Qantas.
So now Qantas is just another airline. I didn't try Qantas for a quote because my perception is that they are a poor to embarrassing value proposition and neither did my travel agent. I'm flying Singapore / Etihad / KLM and Malaysian airlines in business class in various permutations direct to/from Melbourne over the next month or three.
Qantas has systematically rejected a lot of Australians like me who were once prepared to even pay a premium to fly on what was then our beloved national airline.
To give you an idea, there was nothing like the feeling of relief and relaxation after spending a month on business in Europe one felt on boarding a QF 747 at LHR and hearing a friendly Australian accent from the steward and being offered an Australian beer before takeoff! I was already home! People my age who travelled in Europe and Asia in the Seventies and Eighties will agree with me. Then of course there were those relaxed but confident announcements from the cockpit, often with a little understated humour thrown in, from what we believed were the worlds best airline pilots.
That is what Qantas had - the admiration of a nation.
Then the rot set in. The Board referred to by Whitlam as "The Australian equivalent of the house of lords" was taken over by speculators with no interest in Aviation per se and hired CEO's who had nil experience in airline operations. They compounded this by letting narcissists into management ranks.
Qantas then decided at board level that it was an international business first and foremost and that any. consideration of its Australian roots or Australian national interest in its business strategy was unwarranted (until it wants to be bailed out).
Despite the fact that direct international flight access is pivotal to economic development of every region on earth, Qantas remains Sydney-centric, which disadvantaged every other state capital until overseas competition broke down the doors. I will not fly to Sydney for the "privilege" of flying QF, neither will anyone else.
Then there are the domestic markets Qantas killed to destinations like Hamilton Island and Maroochydore. Then there is Jetstar. Then there is the insane cost cutting. Then there is the focus on business and first class as "profitable", consigning the bulk of economy passengers to a slave ship level of comfort and service.
Then there was Margaret Jackson and the takeover ploy that failed.
Then there were the high profile labour disputes where the CEO shut down the airline.
Then there were the disastrous expensive QF business class flights I took to/from LAX where the customer service was ****house, as was the punctuality, both ways.
Then there were the contract non Australian staff.
Then there was the destruction of the Qantas world beating Australian maintenance and overhaul organisation and the offshoring of that work to lowest costs unreliable third world countries, I wonder how many poor Mexicans are going to work on QF A 380's maintenance at LAX?
Then there is the continued behaviour of Qantas management as "nobility", giving each other bottles of Penfolds Grange, who see the airlines current profitability as a result of their superior talents and not as a gift from collapsed oil prices.
Then there is the alliance which means I always have to fly via Dubai and will never get a seamless trip in a QF aircraft to Europe ever again.
My current perception is that Qantas is focussed on corporate clients, starting with the Australian Government, and that an occasional old fart retiree like me is not a 'valued customer" and will be treated accordingly, business class or not. I do not wish to pay again for a premium product and receive a ****house travel experience, which is now what I expect from Qantas.
So now Qantas is just another airline. I didn't try Qantas for a quote because my perception is that they are a poor to embarrassing value proposition and neither did my travel agent. I'm flying Singapore / Etihad / KLM and Malaysian airlines in business class in various permutations direct to/from Melbourne over the next month or three.
Last edited by Sunfish; 8th May 2017 at 23:37.
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That is what Qantas had - the admiration of a nation.
That is the reality. As a small under confident country many staff watched a 747 lift off destination LAX and think they had a small part in it.
The EK alliance is a desperate attempt to shore up the lost international feed, a big self goal Joyce kicked. I didn't think the board could be more inept than under Jackson, but Leigh is a dinosaur, and although his ego wanted to make history, he really is just consigned to it.
Unfortunately once HR/IR and all the other cube farming 'professionals' get hold of businesses it is done..
What Qantas used to get for free from their staff was spent in one afternoon in October 2011. Accountants can't find a spot for loyalty and IR/HR laugh at it, so cut they do. Their London Cabin crew may well be very cheap but how that is supposed to deliver a value premium in First class is beyond me..Serfdom I guess?
Dissenting opinions are cut down and the airline spins the 787 as a 'game changer', when the MSNs of the first deliveries are in the 6XX..The whiz kids in marketing and the woeful lack of critical thinking make sure this is lost in fakebook likes...
I cannot find a metric that makes the EK alliance a winner, unless I change focus and look at EK benefits....
A little fella in a bow tie tried his best to stop the EK invasion of Australia. EKs big cheese then stated he would fly a route at a loss if it hurt QF. Several years later look what happened.
Strong took an airline which had made modest profits with minimal capital (only $147m from the Commonwealth in 45 years, $80m of that was only 8-10 years before the float) that was given $1.1bn capital injection from the sale proceeds, more than doubling its capital base and then claimed he had turned it around. The classic 'show pony' who liked to come in and take credit for things that weren't his own work.
That little fella in the bow-tie, turfed out a lot of good people and replaced them with cronies
The little fella in the bow-tie was a walking and talking hoax. His actions never matched his rhetoric but he did have a lot of people sucked in, especially those with a staff number beginning with 5. And many still think he was a water-walking genius. If interested, go to Facebook and search for "TAA becoming Australian Airlines". There are many there who remain deluded enough to think that TN and JBT should have displaced QF. Such a sad bunch!