Same old story re unstable approaches

[Capn Bloggs]

Originally Posted by George

Give yourself room to gain the feel and trim.

Well said, George.

[A37575]

Then there are some pilots who engage both autopilots in the 737 when doing an ILS in Cat 1 or better weather instead of just one autopilot. Their reasoning is that an automatic pilot go-around is available in case they have to go-around. The problem there is when they disconnect both autopilots after becoming visual and intend to land, they are faced with bags of back trim already set by the autopilot at 400 ft AGL and they have to hastily correct the ensuing pitch up that occurs with AP disconnect.

And all for what? The answer is they are worried about their ability to do a normal manually flown go-around.

[Lookleft]

bags of back trim already set by the autopilot at 400 ft AGL

There was a particularly obnoxious pilot in Ansett who would apply bags of back trim at 400' to assist with the flare! His reasoning was that if the AP did it then it must be ok.

[piratepete]

OK I agree my post was an oversimplification.However if your descent rate is 1000 fpm not the usual 700 fpm at 50 feet, something is wrong and you need to either flare a bit earlier otherwise pull back (flare) a little more.The point is, if you just fly it like a robot (autoland style), you are highly unlikely to smash it on.Pete.

[Dora-9]

but then again I flew the 727 where you never closed the thrust levers until you were finished with the wings).

Ah George, as always your posts make me smile. Do you recall the Ansett captain who insists on pulling the thrust levers back at 50 feet because "that's the way Boeing certified it"? A desperate search through the memory bank can't produce a name, but the FE's all called him Evil Kaneval ("takes off like a rocket but lands like a bag of s**t").

[Centaurus]

Ah George, as always your posts make me smile. Do you recall the Ansett captain who insists on pulling the thrust levers back at 50 feet because "that's the way Boeing certified it"? A desperate search through the memory bank can't produce a name, but the FE's all called him Evil Kaneval ("takes off like a rocket but lands like a bag of s**t").

I am sure every airline has one of those characters. Former Air Nauru pilots (and passengers) from the late 1970's will remember Joe Z, a 737 captain hired directly from Boeing. Joe flew U.S. Catalina amphibians in WW2 and used the same flare height in the 737 with teeth rattling results

[Pearly White]

Originally Posted by emeritus

Its all part of long term policy by Airlines and Manufacturers. As automation increases and pilot skills decrease it then makes it easier to start saying that its safer to design the pilot out of the equasion altogether.

Whats the bet that will start with freighters to get everyone used to the idea and iron the bugs out without killing too many people.

Emeritus.

How many is too many? Conversely, what is the right number of people to kill?