Cunderdin ticks all the Perth Alternate boxes...
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Most informative post Bloggs.
Given the witting or unwitting leak of information in the article (crew duty hours), the commercial limitations of the LHR-PER and the requirements for a very close alternative become clear.
YPPH YCUN 67 nm
YPPH YBLN 109 nm
YPPH YGEL 199 nm
YPPH YPKG 291 nm
Distance range rings from the various aerodromes intersecting at PER.
Source: Great Circle Mapper
Given the witting or unwitting leak of information in the article (crew duty hours), the commercial limitations of the LHR-PER and the requirements for a very close alternative become clear.
YPPH YCUN 67 nm
YPPH YBLN 109 nm
YPPH YGEL 199 nm
YPPH YPKG 291 nm
Distance range rings from the various aerodromes intersecting at PER.
Source: Great Circle Mapper
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GT's journalism up to it's usual standard...
What does this sentence even mean? Is it English? 
Because whatever weather that caused the diversion in the first place will clear instantly the wheels touch down in Cunderdin for a quick return to Perth inside duty limits... 
I guess I can't blame GT for this one, but Kalgoorlie saves fuel how, again? 
“It’s all about making the business case. Up till now Kalgoorlie, not Geraldton, has put a viable proposal and we have been diverting to Adelaide for years,” he said.
“For us, Cunderdin makes far more sense because it’s so close to Perth and gives us the opportunity of returning to Perth before our crew are over their duty time hours and that is critical.”
Mr Crook argued using Kalgoorlie would save fuel, as flights from the Eastern States usually flew “within striking distance” of Kalgoorlie-Boulder . “If they had to deviate to an alternative airport like Kalgoorlie, they’d be doing it on the way,” he said.
Thread Starter
but Kalgoorlie saves fuel how
It's not about flights coming from the east coast. They're never really limited in terms of range. There are plenty of options available on the way if it gets bad.
This is about ultra long haul flights coming in from the north west. Particularly LHR-PER.
Cunderdin makes sense for this as the extra fuel uplift is negligible, it could be taken care of in the descent with an extra 10 mins or so of cruise.
It'll be interesting though if a wide body got stuck out there. No accomodation, no customs. Everybody remains onboard until a replacement crew can be sourced and paxed out. *shudder*
I think it will be a planning exercise only. Just like Forrest. With the cat3b in PER, if there is a real diversion it'll go somewhere more suitable for a recovery.
This is about ultra long haul flights coming in from the north west. Particularly LHR-PER.
Cunderdin makes sense for this as the extra fuel uplift is negligible, it could be taken care of in the descent with an extra 10 mins or so of cruise.
It'll be interesting though if a wide body got stuck out there. No accomodation, no customs. Everybody remains onboard until a replacement crew can be sourced and paxed out. *shudder*
I think it will be a planning exercise only. Just like Forrest. With the cat3b in PER, if there is a real diversion it'll go somewhere more suitable for a recovery.
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I think it will be a planning exercise only. Just like Forrest
The rate of real world weather & operational events delays (like a single runway due routine maintenance ie RWY21 recently) is much higher. The expectation is that crews will extend for exactly the reasons you state: No accomodation, no customs. A lot of pressure to keep going...
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Gob
It's not about flights coming from the east coast.
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Ahh Bloggs, yes I understand that, but the argument was being made in the context of why Kalgoorlie would be a better alternate than Cunderdin. Fuel savings for an East-West top up was given as an argument.
It would not make any difference fuel-wise if the aircraft dropped into Kalgoorlie or Cunderdin for fuel. They are both en-route.
It would not make any difference fuel-wise if the aircraft dropped into Kalgoorlie or Cunderdin for fuel. They are both en-route.
Creampuff:
In years gone by the largest RPT a/c that used YFRT was the TAA DC9-31.
Before the AN A320's were ETOPS approved YFRT was available as required.
Both the B737-800 and A320-200 would get into YFRT and out with restricted payloads.
In years gone by the largest RPT a/c that used YFRT was the TAA DC9-31.
Before the AN A320's were ETOPS approved YFRT was available as required.
Both the B737-800 and A320-200 would get into YFRT and out with restricted payloads.
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It's true that Cunderdin may be affected similar to Perth but it's one more available airport, and once Perth gets the CAT3 it would help as pretty much you can get in on the approach with a lot less extra fuel for legal alternates, assuming YCUN TTF was ok.
Bloggsy, you've got a lot more experience operating in WA than me, but I would have thought that, with YCUN being east of the range, it wouldn't be subject to the same fog conditions as well as not having the crosswind/mechanical turbulence issues that YPPH has when the strong Easterlies are blowing.
Thread Starter
GB, I will admit that I haven't done an analysis on the coincident fog forecasts at Perth and Cunderdin; I assume the protagonists for YCUN Intl have done so!
What were they replaced by? 
Originally Posted by Dick Smith
Yep. I did get rid of CTAF r's
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There doesn't seem to be much in the way of historic data for fog available on the BOM website, however there are long term stats available, such as the 9am conditions such temp, wet bulb and humidity.
I will note right up front that correlation is not causation, and these are averages only. Without long term observations of the actual conditions such as fog They are only suggestive of similarities between two locations, they don't prove anything. However they still give food for thought about it's suitability given its apparent similarity to PER and it's issues with fog.
You can generate your own graphs of any two stats from the long term data
Perth Airport Cunderdin Airport
9am Temp vs wet bulb
9am Temp vs Dew Point
9am Humidity
I will note right up front that correlation is not causation, and these are averages only. Without long term observations of the actual conditions such as fog They are only suggestive of similarities between two locations, they don't prove anything. However they still give food for thought about it's suitability given its apparent similarity to PER and it's issues with fog.
You can generate your own graphs of any two stats from the long term data
Perth Airport Cunderdin Airport
9am Temp vs wet bulb
9am Temp vs Dew Point
9am Humidity
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I guess the YCUN persuaders will be over the moon this morning. YPPH is deathly quiet this morning, and YCUN is fog-free!
The West Australian - heavy fog descends on Perth, prompting traffic warning
Bom.gov.au - Meteye - Cunderdin (type in Cunderdin, zoom out, select fog from LH menu)
The West Australian - heavy fog descends on Perth, prompting traffic warning
Bom.gov.au - Meteye - Cunderdin (type in Cunderdin, zoom out, select fog from LH menu)
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Fair go! This is our resident "Aviation Expert" you're dissing! 
(watch the video for GT's expert opinion)
The West Australian - Drone snapped dangerously close to Singapore Airlines plane
(watch the video for GT's expert opinion)The West Australian - Drone snapped dangerously close to Singapore Airlines plane