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Melbourne Air Traffic Control

Old 20th Jul 2017, 14:01
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Bula + one.
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 01:41
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What happened this morning with Hainan landing on 34 and vacating at Charlie? The wind was up to a thirty knot northerly and at least four aircraft waiting to take off. Virgin ended up being sent around. No fire trucks or anything. No doubt this slowed everything up. Not sure why he didn't take Echo. Anyone know?
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 07:24
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Originally Posted by EPIRB View Post
What happened this morning with Hainan landing on 34 and vacating at Charlie? The wind was up to a thirty knot northerly and at least four aircraft waiting to take off. Virgin ended up being sent around. No fire trucks or anything. No doubt this slowed everything up. Not sure why he didn't take Echo. Anyone know?
There was no advice from the crew that they would need to roll through and no explanation as to why they did roll through to Charlie. We were fairly surprised given the wind conditions that it occurred.

Attempts were made to get them to vacate via the crossing runway after missing Echo but to no avail.

There may be a response from a company with reasons for an occurrence but not always and I'd say we'll probably never know in this case.
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 07:42
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Thanks for that. They certainly didn't display any situational awareness given the que at the the threshold! How does this sort of incident affect flow management?
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 07:57
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Originally Posted by EPIRB View Post
Thanks for that. They certainly didn't display any situational awareness given the que at the the threshold! How does this sort of incident affect flow management?
It depends how tight the sequence is I suppose. Sometimes there may be a natural gap for the missed approach aircraft to slot straight back into with no effect on others but this wouldn't be the norm.

Some vectors for the next 3-4 aircraft usually to make some extra space for the extra landing is common in the event of a missed approach.

In terms of what happens further out and whether flow control is impacted, i'd have to leave it to an approach/flow/arrivals controller to answer that.
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 08:47
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Originally Posted by EPIRB View Post
Thanks for that. They certainly didn't display any situational awareness given the que at the the threshold! How does this sort of incident affect flow management?
To be honest, the last thing you ought to be thinking about on short final is the number sat at the holding point waiting to depart.
On the other hand crews should be cognisant of the need to vacate the active runway expeditiously which in the case of YMML may or may not include a company restriction to use a crossing runway.
All that being said, even on a calm hot day going into MEL I've never had a problem taking "E" on 34 at MLW, AB3 and blast of reverse keeps the brake temps ok on the 77W.
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 08:55
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Need to power up to E
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 14:29
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Assuming conditions are visual the flow will pick a likely looking spot to squeeze them in - jam up the arrivals ahead and slow the few behind to open up enough of a hole to fit the go around in. If weather conditions are poor a full slot needs to be added pushing everyone back a slot. Again the flow will try to pick the least disruptive place to fit them in.
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Old 23rd Jul 2017, 07:35
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Originally Posted by haughtney1 View Post
To be honest, the last thing you ought to be thinking about on short final is the number sat at the holding point waiting to depart.
That's often the ONLY thing I'm thinking of. They've got front row seats for my landing!
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Old 1st Mar 2019, 08:45
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The ML ATIS at 010807 today had the wind at 040/18 but only 34 was
being used. Why wasn’t 09 being used as well in order to alleviate holding?
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Old 1st Mar 2019, 09:00
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Apparently no controllers have experience in 09 so they dont use it
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Old 1st Mar 2019, 18:36
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Hearing rumours with the yanks in town for the Airshow and current fires going on in the Dandenong, certain frequencies are becoming chammed and thus not being able to talk to aircraft...
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Old 1st Mar 2019, 23:55
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Originally Posted by EPIRB View Post
What happened this morning with Hainan landing on 34 and vacating at Charlie? The wind was up to a thirty knot northerly and at least four aircraft waiting to take off. Virgin ended up being sent around. No fire trucks or anything. No doubt this slowed everything up. Not sure why he didn't take Echo. Anyone know?
A glance at the 211 CAAC/ airline imposed penalties (financial & other) derived from the Hainan QAR may provide an insight. Items no western professional pilot would dream of feature in this annually reviewed & expanding document. Such beauties as Lateral G > 0.28 or > 3 degrees AOB on touchdown have the pilots flying by fear of the QAR with little awareness of much else.
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 01:29
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Regarding RWY09 usage. My understanding is the old tower did not a view of the threshold. They are currently designing new STARS to start using 09 more often; particularly for arrivals as good for noise abatement. A good time to get into the designers ear to incorporate CTA steps into the STAR design!!
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 03:02
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Originally Posted by The Banjo View Post
A good time to get into the designers ear to incorporate CTA steps into the STAR design!!
They will design the STARs within the existing CTA.

Airservices don't have authority to change airspace, only CASA.

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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 03:22
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Originally Posted by Midnight
Airservices don't have authority to change airspace, only CASA.
But it is quite happy to ram low level class E down our throats (allegedly for our own good); but no guts to tackle lowering the terminal steps to stop the nonsensical hangups of big jets when it is blindingly obvious that controller and crew workload and therefore safety would be improved by doing so...
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 03:45
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ATC cant handle departures/go-rounds off 09 simultaneously with arrivals and departures into Essendon or arrivals from the east if 16 or 34 are in use. Whats really going to be a laugh is that when the new 27L/09R is built there will be NO increase in capacity under certain conditions for the same reason. Just like the debacle when there is 6 knots tailwind on 27 and holding goes to 45 minutes with single runway ops.Gotta love aviation in Australia.....Worlds best practice......... except for everywhere else.
Oh, and the rumour is 27L will be built with a displaced threshold from day1.....due noise abatement.
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 03:46
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Theoretically when CASA do airspace audits (which they did of the Melbourne basin some years back) those sort of issues are supposed to be raised when they consult operators etc.

Airspace Reviews - CASA

I recall when Airservices proposed the lower step north of Melbourne I mentioned in another post, they were asked for written evidence from all the operators requesting the change.

As for the Class E business, I assume Airservices have had their hands smacked by putting something out to industry before doing their homework and following "due process"
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 09:26
  #419 (permalink)  
 
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QF took off with 15 of tail RW27 the other day. Rest of us off 34 with a long wait.

My point being that 09/34 would have saved us a lot of time. Surprising in the greeny/labor Victoria that they’d happily have us burning fuel no end at holding point. Offsider said it was more related to noise off 09. Who knows.

Last edited by Berealgetreal; 5th Mar 2019 at 09:39.
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 06:42
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Remember you are talking about the SkyGods, they get preferential treatment! Out of all the Ozzy major bases I dislike ML & BN the most! SY despite their hands being tied behind their backs due utter stupidity do a pretty good job, well done guys:-)
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