Pilot shortage
I would be happier with the extra time off WITHOUT the pay cuts.
Would go some way to actually addressing the root of the problem.
The game is to improve conditions, not trade them away. Any 10-20% pay reduction will simply be redistributed into executive salary.
What improvement would that demostrate?
Self worth starts with self.
Would go some way to actually addressing the root of the problem.
The game is to improve conditions, not trade them away. Any 10-20% pay reduction will simply be redistributed into executive salary.
What improvement would that demostrate?
Self worth starts with self.
You’re severely underestimating your worth Framer.
I would be happier with the extra time off WITHOUT the pay cuts.
Pilots haven’t had this much bargaining power in generations, for God’s Sake grow some balls and use it.
Thread Starter
You’re severely underestimating your worth Framer.
for God’s Sake grow some balls and use it.
I didn’t miss your point at all. I disagree with it (though you’re completely free to have it).
Pilots now now have the upper hand, enough so, that flexible rostering practices should be pursued alongside increases in other terms and conditions, especially pay, NOT in exchange for it.
Pilots now now have the upper hand, enough so, that flexible rostering practices should be pursued alongside increases in other terms and conditions, especially pay, NOT in exchange for it.
Nunc est bibendum
Framer’s talking about flying less. Not about taking a pay rate cut. I’d be happy to drop a few hours at the moment too!
Nothing in my statement or Framer’s precludes pilots from seeking better terms and conditions.
Nothing in my statement or Framer’s precludes pilots from seeking better terms and conditions.
I realise Framer is actually talking about flexi lines or the like.
Even if your Agreement allows you to take them, good luck getting those at times like the present, right when people might want them. So trading off anything to get them inckuded in the first place is ultimately pointless.
Even if your Agreement allows you to take them, good luck getting those at times like the present, right when people might want them. So trading off anything to get them inckuded in the first place is ultimately pointless.
Nunc est bibendum
I think that was framer’s point too. I don’t think framer was recommending trading anything off to get them, rather that airlines should be aiming for an establishment that would enable them. This would likely increase engagement, decrease sick leave, etc. Anyway, suspect we’re all in furious agreement and preaching largely to the choir on this issue.
Thread Starter
You wouldn’t be trading away any hourly rate. You’d simply be choosing how and when you want to work and lifestyle improvements don’t preclude locking in market rates for the job.
Put it this way, there comes a point when the lifestyle is so rubbish that the money can’t make up for it because your health and relationships suffer. People walk away and others don’t join. I’m just saying that I think Airlines will realise that giving pilots choice in their rosters is a cost effective way of maintaining a stable workforce. Maintaining a stable workforce is becoming an issue for Airlines. It shouldn’t take them too long to analyse the options and their relative costs.
Put it this way, there comes a point when the lifestyle is so rubbish that the money can’t make up for it because your health and relationships suffer. People walk away and others don’t join. I’m just saying that I think Airlines will realise that giving pilots choice in their rosters is a cost effective way of maintaining a stable workforce. Maintaining a stable workforce is becoming an issue for Airlines. It shouldn’t take them too long to analyse the options and their relative costs.
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sponsored...ectid=12088537
if the cancer doesn’t get ya..the Alzheimer’s will!
..and if that doesn’t get ya..the Alzheimer’s will!
Anyway, suspect we’re all in furious agreement and preaching largely to the choir on this issue.
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There should be scope in bidding for much wider divisors ie +/- 20 hours..it would allow those chasing the coin more scope for additional, whilst the rest of us could get more time off...
Of course, that would require management to have correct crewing numbers so we are not bouncing of our respective hour limits...so it's not going to happen soon..if ever.
Of course, that would require management to have correct crewing numbers so we are not bouncing of our respective hour limits...so it's not going to happen soon..if ever.
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Framer,I wish you were right but,alas modern airline managers are impervious to reason.Its like dealing with a beady eyed Doberman.They just dont care.Rosters are built by clerks who are totally disconnected from the outcome of their efforts.Rosters are built to minimum cost;job done, KPI's met.Pilots lives ruined;zero consequence,no need to change.Same as purchasing department buying crap hotel accommodation.Pissed off Pilots but,again,KPI's met,and no consequence.Outcome disconnected from consequence.The only,and ONLY,consequence that managers understand is when they can't crew aircraft and flights are cancelled.But we keep saving their sorry arses.We can't help ourselves.Pilots are their own worst enemies.
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Stop trolling on PPrune, stop lining up for coffee in the Street, go back to your cubicle.
Framer,I wish you were right but,alas modern airline managers are impervious to reason.Its like dealing with a beady eyed Doberman.They just dont care.Rosters are built by clerks who are totally disconnected from the outcome of their efforts.Rosters are built to minimum cost;job done, KPI's met.Pilots lives ruined;zero consequence,no need to change.Same as purchasing department buying crap hotel accommodation.Pissed off Pilots but,again,KPI's met,and no consequence.Outcome disconnected from consequence.The only,and ONLY,consequence that managers understand is when they can't crew aircraft and flights are cancelled.But we keep saving their sorry arses.We can't help ourselves.Pilots are their own worst enemies.
Not trolling, The 330 and 787 will fit into every 45m RWY in Australia domestically, it’s a great way to ease air traffic density at the major airports and would require less crew. Same amount of passengers carried for a loss in frequency, that’s all !
Nunc est bibendum
Qantas did this in the late ‘90s and early 2000s. It was called CityFlyer and it involved mainly 767s every half hour between SYD- MEL for most of the day. Then came Virgin Blue which killed off Ansett. Then Qantas created Jetstar to ensure Virgin Blue didn’t get too big for its boots. Now Qantas sends 737s every half hour for most of the day and Jetstar sends A320s some of the day. They could get rid of Jetstar and introduce 140 ‘Jetstar class’ tickets on a mainline widebody and decrease the SYD- MEL traffic by about 20%. Probably make just as much money too. Of course, they’d need to invest in mainline to do it.