QF recall leave without pay pilots
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QF recall leave without pay pilots
Well, the JQ NZ pilots on LWOP were recently asked their intentions, I hear 2-3 went back, unsure how many were eligible.
I hear that yesterday JQ FO's on LWOP received their letter asking their intention to return to the mothership.
Looks like the rumors of QF hiring are true, and this will now create a void in JQ... Get your resumes ready!!!
I hear that yesterday JQ FO's on LWOP received their letter asking their intention to return to the mothership.
Looks like the rumors of QF hiring are true, and this will now create a void in JQ... Get your resumes ready!!!
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Yep, don't think it will be long for the JQ oz LWOP FO's getting back to QF. They have had quiet enough thank you.
There could well be some more vacancies at JQ because all of their junior FO's will be applying to QF also. Jetstar is now a dead end for junior pilots.
So, get your resume ready but get it into QF first! Keep an eye on the Friday Australian, won't be long......
There could well be some more vacancies at JQ because all of their junior FO's will be applying to QF also. Jetstar is now a dead end for junior pilots.
So, get your resume ready but get it into QF first! Keep an eye on the Friday Australian, won't be long......
Geeez you boys are drinking the cool aid.
A dead end for junior FOs at JQ?
How about 20 years to be a junior A380 FO at qantas.
If you ever want to be a captain at Qantas you'd have to join at 21 now or you're too old.
A dead end for junior FOs at JQ?
How about 20 years to be a junior A380 FO at qantas.
If you ever want to be a captain at Qantas you'd have to join at 21 now or you're too old.
Geeez you boys are drinking the cool aid.
A dead end for junior FOs at JQ?
How about 20 years to be a junior A380 FO at qantas.
A dead end for junior FOs at JQ?
How about 20 years to be a junior A380 FO at qantas.
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Oh Gob'
The orange expansion is over and the demographics of a relatively young group of Captains means that for a junior FO, (disregarding SO, there won't be many) lots of repetitive four sector days and back of the clock for a long time. When was the last FSO for command positions? How many pilots sitting on the "CUSP"? (CUSP is the JQ command training prep program)
Yes it has been a poor period for promotion at QF, hmmm I wonder why? But again, look at the ageing demographic and "proposed" expansion. Considering income, lifestyle and career potential, I know where I'd rather be.
bdcr,
No, I don't speak for anyone. But just "quietly" (touché) there are more than one or two who were pressured into extending their tenure 18 months ago, and they have had "quite enough".
The orange expansion is over and the demographics of a relatively young group of Captains means that for a junior FO, (disregarding SO, there won't be many) lots of repetitive four sector days and back of the clock for a long time. When was the last FSO for command positions? How many pilots sitting on the "CUSP"? (CUSP is the JQ command training prep program)
Yes it has been a poor period for promotion at QF, hmmm I wonder why? But again, look at the ageing demographic and "proposed" expansion. Considering income, lifestyle and career potential, I know where I'd rather be.
bdcr,
No, I don't speak for anyone. But just "quietly" (touché) there are more than one or two who were pressured into extending their tenure 18 months ago, and they have had "quite enough".
Who were they pressured by? Most LWOP would have extended 18 months ago to wait until the QF waters were a little less muddy. I have no doubt most of them will go back but I think they will wait for as long as possible in the hope of going back to the RHS. I'm also fairly certain that with all the LWOP going back that there won't be a mass recruitment from JQ except if you are of a certain gender.
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At that time JQ aircrew allocations (and flight ops industrial policy) were managed in shall we say a fairly unique way. They didn't want to create an unnecessary training headache buy loosing pilots so, they ran the "return to QF and you will be made redundant" line at them. I am told they were also lured with the prospect of wide body FO positions, but that didn't happen, don't know why.
One of the quirks of LWOP from QF is that it appears you can't be made redundant whilst on LWOP. (This was never tested) Bearing in mind that many (majority?) of the LWOP FO's are the most junior pilots in QF and at that time with the huge manufactured loss at QF, the prospect of being made redundant was very real. So they stayed, fair enough.
I hasten to add it's not as if these guys are living off food stamps. There are many outside the airline who would love to be in that position, so it's all relative.
From what I hear most will be happy to go back to a cruisy and more lucrative SO position. They have seen plenty of four sector days as 320 FO's. But I think the overriding desire is just to come back regardless.
Will be interesting to see how recruitment of JQ pilots goes. Perhaps the relationships between management will have an influence. But you can be sure there will be a large number of applications and they all have to be considered equally on their merits ......
One of the quirks of LWOP from QF is that it appears you can't be made redundant whilst on LWOP. (This was never tested) Bearing in mind that many (majority?) of the LWOP FO's are the most junior pilots in QF and at that time with the huge manufactured loss at QF, the prospect of being made redundant was very real. So they stayed, fair enough.
I hasten to add it's not as if these guys are living off food stamps. There are many outside the airline who would love to be in that position, so it's all relative.
From what I hear most will be happy to go back to a cruisy and more lucrative SO position. They have seen plenty of four sector days as 320 FO's. But I think the overriding desire is just to come back regardless.
Will be interesting to see how recruitment of JQ pilots goes. Perhaps the relationships between management will have an influence. But you can be sure there will be a large number of applications and they all have to be considered equally on their merits ......
Last edited by Iron Bar; 10th Feb 2016 at 21:26. Reason: rephrase
Iron bar, you really remind me of a certain trouble maker who was an MOU pilot.
JQ never forced anybody to stay. The guys were very lucky to be able to have the best of both worlds. They will go back to QF all the better for the experience. Some will choose to stay, others will choose to go back. Whatever is best for them. Just like many MOU captains stayed. Many are going back. That's life.
There's at least 100 Qantas pilots at Jetstar. Even if only half go back, that's still about 6% of the pilot group. They will need replacing and the company is already very short of crew with most bases flying 90+ stick per month.
So just in MOU commands retuning to Jetstar that's going to create a fair bit of movement when the company can afford to release wide body FOs to train as narrowbody captains. That in turn will create plenty of subsequent upward movement.
When the floodgates open JQ will take a lot of crew. It will be pretty soon and they will probably overcrew and grow into it like last time.
JQ never forced anybody to stay. The guys were very lucky to be able to have the best of both worlds. They will go back to QF all the better for the experience. Some will choose to stay, others will choose to go back. Whatever is best for them. Just like many MOU captains stayed. Many are going back. That's life.
There's at least 100 Qantas pilots at Jetstar. Even if only half go back, that's still about 6% of the pilot group. They will need replacing and the company is already very short of crew with most bases flying 90+ stick per month.
So just in MOU commands retuning to Jetstar that's going to create a fair bit of movement when the company can afford to release wide body FOs to train as narrowbody captains. That in turn will create plenty of subsequent upward movement.
When the floodgates open JQ will take a lot of crew. It will be pretty soon and they will probably overcrew and grow into it like last time.
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Haha, trouble making MOU pilot at Jetstar eh. Which one? I believe there were several!!! If by trouble making you mean not tolerating incessant trumped up rubbish from Jetstar, well it's a different airline culture you see. Q pilots don't need to sail with the boat club.
Anyway back on topic.
Surprisingly, I agree with you. Boys had a choice, all be it influenced by Matt and they will be better for the time at JQ. However, I can't see many of the LWOP FO's staying.
As far as recruitment and training goes, we will see. I don't share your optimism.
Anyway back on topic.
Surprisingly, I agree with you. Boys had a choice, all be it influenced by Matt and they will be better for the time at JQ. However, I can't see many of the LWOP FO's staying.
As far as recruitment and training goes, we will see. I don't share your optimism.
Last edited by Iron Bar; 11th Feb 2016 at 00:48.
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QF Policy in the past was to not recruit from its own subsidiaries. (i.e. QLink at the time).
Given it has an obligation to take back pilots on LWOP, and also an obligation (albeit a different and maybe more moral one) to take industry placement cadets from QLink with the cost, schedule disruption etc associated with training their replacements, I think it would be very unlikely to see QF add further to its crewing problems by recruiting any more pilots from JQ or QLink than it is obligated to. Why would you?
Interesting times, but if I were at JQ right now, (and not in an MOU) I'd be concentrating on making the most of my career at JQ as I'm very very unlikely to find myself at QF.
Given it has an obligation to take back pilots on LWOP, and also an obligation (albeit a different and maybe more moral one) to take industry placement cadets from QLink with the cost, schedule disruption etc associated with training their replacements, I think it would be very unlikely to see QF add further to its crewing problems by recruiting any more pilots from JQ or QLink than it is obligated to. Why would you?
Interesting times, but if I were at JQ right now, (and not in an MOU) I'd be concentrating on making the most of my career at JQ as I'm very very unlikely to find myself at QF.
I have no doubt most of them will go back but I think they will wait for as long as possible in the hope of going back to the RHS
Coming back to spend another 18 months or so in the back seat, flying far more relaxing rosters for significantly more pay seems by no means a turn off.
They also want to be in the QF fold when their seniority comes up for that RHS, which for some of them could happen this year or next. A lot can happen to QF's current good fortune between now and then, and you'd kick yourself if you had the chance to come back and didn't.
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G'day Don
I doubt you will find that policy in writing or anyone in QF who will confirm it. But I can probably think of more Qlink pilots who went to Cathy than Qantas.
If and when QF start to recruit, there will be opportunities for all.
I doubt you will find that policy in writing or anyone in QF who will confirm it. But I can probably think of more Qlink pilots who went to Cathy than Qantas.
If and when QF start to recruit, there will be opportunities for all.
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Iron Bar, IsDon
The reason you won't find it written as policy is that it is completely and utterly against the law to restrict movement of employees within a business when vacancies exist and those employees meet the requirements for those roles. The reason it might happen in practice is because it is usually difficult to prove that any sort of collusion is at play, but employers do have to be very careful of this.
The reason you won't find it written as policy is that it is completely and utterly against the law to restrict movement of employees within a business when vacancies exist and those employees meet the requirements for those roles. The reason it might happen in practice is because it is usually difficult to prove that any sort of collusion is at play, but employers do have to be very careful of this.
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Iron Bar, IsDon
The reason you won't find it written as policy is that it is completely and utterly against the law to restrict movement of employees within a business when vacancies exist and those employees meet the requirements for those roles. The reason it might happen in practice is because it is usually difficult to prove that any sort of collusion is at play, but employers do have to be very careful of this.
The reason you won't find it written as policy is that it is completely and utterly against the law to restrict movement of employees within a business when vacancies exist and those employees meet the requirements for those roles. The reason it might happen in practice is because it is usually difficult to prove that any sort of collusion is at play, but employers do have to be very careful of this.
Even if it were the law, as you do emphatically state, it would be impossible to prove given the volume of applicants Qantas will have to choose from.
They've done it in the past, I'm certain they'll do it in the future, but of course will deny all knowledge.
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IB you would know better than most that until a law is tested it is just words in a book. If QF take a few JQ pilots then they cannot be accused of discrimination. Think of the 'dirty dozen" from '90 when everyone could reapply for their jobs. I think its also illegal for petroleum companies to collude on petrol prices. Tell me that's not happening.
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Page number would suffice.
IsDon, "given the volume of applicants Qantas will have to choose from."
I think there will be a few disappointed / surprised souls once any applications are received. I'm thinking that given the state of GA, the flying training industry, the nature of the current generation there will not be the flood of suitable applicants the airlines are anticipating.
I think there will be a few disappointed / surprised souls once any applications are received. I'm thinking that given the state of GA, the flying training industry, the nature of the current generation there will not be the flood of suitable applicants the airlines are anticipating.