Bleeding heart delays flight deporting illegal immigrant
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Stanwell.
I actully have sympathy with your position and as a crewmemebr I've been involved in such situations but the final outcome will not be what we on PPRune think should happen, it will be what a Judge says that the regs say. That may be a compex and difficult decision given the mess that anything to do with Aviation Regs are in.
I refer again to the UA post on the main forum.How would you behave if you realised before door closure that the pax behind you may have been exposed to Ebola as the cabin crew on that aircraft believed ( as reported on the post from the Union)? A blanket ban on pax taking themselves off an aircraft may not be the best thing for the pax or crew based on some experiences that I have had when they were persuaded to remain on board.
Wunwing
I actully have sympathy with your position and as a crewmemebr I've been involved in such situations but the final outcome will not be what we on PPRune think should happen, it will be what a Judge says that the regs say. That may be a compex and difficult decision given the mess that anything to do with Aviation Regs are in.
I refer again to the UA post on the main forum.How would you behave if you realised before door closure that the pax behind you may have been exposed to Ebola as the cabin crew on that aircraft believed ( as reported on the post from the Union)? A blanket ban on pax taking themselves off an aircraft may not be the best thing for the pax or crew based on some experiences that I have had when they were persuaded to remain on board.
Wunwing
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"unruly passenger drinking and smoking onboard. The passenger has since been placed on the no-fly list"
Good, job well done. But smoking and unruly behavior is different from simply requesting to deplane.
"they deserve a forceful lesson"
No, they deserve to be protected by the law.
"Well said. The politics behind this are immaterial."
No, this is about NOTHING BUT politics. Had this delay been the result of a drunk cricket team it would have barely raised an eyebrow. Had the delay been caused by union games during contract negotiations by belligerent pilots it would have been applauded. This debate here on pprune has legs simply because it panders to the knuckle dragging regular joe in the street who hates immigration and wants to blame all of life ills on immigrants.
"Too many times people check in their bags and then "get lost" in the shopping centres posing as terminals"
And do you advocate adding such folk to the no fly list?
"Why didn’t he tell check-in staff of his displeasure at check-in if he was so disturbed by it"
The unfair treatment of the deportee did not unfold until after boarding had commenced.
"if a passenger is ordered to sit down by a crew member and refuses,"
No where in the article did it suggest that he refused anything.
"there is no debating the said passengers were in violation of Federal Law in refusing to abide a crew direction"
Which crew directions?
"In my book, that is not acceptable behaviour"
The world does operate in accordance of what is in your book.
Good, job well done. But smoking and unruly behavior is different from simply requesting to deplane.
"they deserve a forceful lesson"
No, they deserve to be protected by the law.
"Well said. The politics behind this are immaterial."
No, this is about NOTHING BUT politics. Had this delay been the result of a drunk cricket team it would have barely raised an eyebrow. Had the delay been caused by union games during contract negotiations by belligerent pilots it would have been applauded. This debate here on pprune has legs simply because it panders to the knuckle dragging regular joe in the street who hates immigration and wants to blame all of life ills on immigrants.
"Too many times people check in their bags and then "get lost" in the shopping centres posing as terminals"
And do you advocate adding such folk to the no fly list?
"Why didn’t he tell check-in staff of his displeasure at check-in if he was so disturbed by it"
The unfair treatment of the deportee did not unfold until after boarding had commenced.
"if a passenger is ordered to sit down by a crew member and refuses,"
No where in the article did it suggest that he refused anything.
"there is no debating the said passengers were in violation of Federal Law in refusing to abide a crew direction"
Which crew directions?
"In my book, that is not acceptable behaviour"
The world does operate in accordance of what is in your book.
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I beg to differ, Professor.
This is all about a person with a certain political viewpoint deliberately causing inconvenience and expense to untold numbers of people just to gain publicity.
The reason it's on PPRuNe is because he chose to pull his stunt on board an aircraft.
Pretty simple, really.
This is all about a person with a certain political viewpoint deliberately causing inconvenience and expense to untold numbers of people just to gain publicity.
The reason it's on PPRuNe is because he chose to pull his stunt on board an aircraft.
Pretty simple, really.
No, this is about NOTHING BUT politics. Had this delay been the result of a drunk cricket team it would have barely raised an eyebrow. Had the delay been caused by union games during contract negotiations by belligerent pilots it would have been applauded. This debate here on PPRuNe has legs simply because it panders to the knuckle dragging regular joe in the street who hates immigration and wants to blame all of life ills on immigrants.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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or those of you who seem to have a concrete position on punters not being able to leave the aircraft before door closure, perhaps you should read the current Rumours and News thread on United, particularly #48.If the accusation is true and there was a suspicion of an Ebola exposed pax being on an aircraft that you were on, I suspect all of us would leave the aircraft if the doors were still open?
In the most recent posts it would appear some of the newer posters haven't bothered to read through the thread before posting and are posting based only on their emotive response to this situation.
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I see none of the bleeding hearts responded to my query re the pax with sick family!
Professor: no, pax who get lost in the terminal I would not put on a no fly list
- the FIRST time!
If I was King I would charge them for the cost of the delay to get their bags off though!
Perhaps a standard $1000 per minute delay would suffice!
This is NOT about politics from a crew viewpoint, it is about delays.
The politics was from the offenders.
Professor: no, pax who get lost in the terminal I would not put on a no fly list
- the FIRST time!
If I was King I would charge them for the cost of the delay to get their bags off though!
Perhaps a standard $1000 per minute delay would suffice!
This is NOT about politics from a crew viewpoint, it is about delays.
The politics was from the offenders.
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Some of these straw man arguments from the bleeding heart left are tiresome.
Is it reasonable to detain someone on board if they wish to leave, even at push time? No.
Is it reasonable for someone to leave the aircraft to choose not to fly for a medical reason? Yes.
Is it reasonable for someone to choose not to fly due to a fear of flying? Yes.
Is it reasonable for someone to get lost between check-in and the gate, resulting in an off load and delays to those with better navigational skills? No, but some people shouldn't be let out in public in the first place. This is not done out of malice, just a demonstration of incompetence.
Is it reasonable to put someone on a no fly list for doing any of the above. No, and those of you who should know better realise that these individuals would not be put on a no fly list for these actions. It is disingenuous for those on the loony left fringe to suggest that those of us applauding Qantas's actions in this particular case would support such action.
Is it reasonable for someone to hold an aircraft full of passengers hostage while they conduct a politically motivated demonstration on board an aircraft, in the process of such demonstration refuse crew instructions to be seated and fasten a seat belt? Absolutely not!
Now let me head off the next protestations before they begin. True, the article in question in the SMH suggests that all Mr Leary did was decide to leave the aircraft. He and his colleague had no prior knowledge of the demonstration, and were in no way involved in the demonstration. I call "Pigs Ar$e" on all of these points. Don't believe everything you read. The article is firmly biased towards the point of view of Mr Leary. I suspect Mr Leary was well and truly involved before he even boarded the aircraft, and had made his decision to be part of a protest accordingly. In fact, I'd go so far to suggest it was the reason he was on that particular flight in the first place. Or it could be just a coincidence that two members of a social justice organisation just happened to be on a flight to Darwin, the very same flight on which a political demonstration was planned, by a total stranger. The first time, to my knowledge, that an Australian commercial flight has been used for a political demonstration. How gullible are you?
I know for a fact that if Mr Leary's article in the SMH were factual, he would not have found himself on a no fly list. You would not find yourself on a no fly list for simply deciding at push back you wanted to get off, regardless of the reasons for deciding such.
Interestingly, Leary, has filed a complaint with the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal’s human rights division on the grounds that he is being discriminated against because of his political beliefs. Think about this carefully. The basis of his complaint is that Qantas has, supposedly, breached his human rights to his political beliefs. This fact suggests to me that the truth is far from what is printed in the SMH article and Leary knows it.
Is it reasonable to detain someone on board if they wish to leave, even at push time? No.
Is it reasonable for someone to leave the aircraft to choose not to fly for a medical reason? Yes.
Is it reasonable for someone to choose not to fly due to a fear of flying? Yes.
Is it reasonable for someone to get lost between check-in and the gate, resulting in an off load and delays to those with better navigational skills? No, but some people shouldn't be let out in public in the first place. This is not done out of malice, just a demonstration of incompetence.
Is it reasonable to put someone on a no fly list for doing any of the above. No, and those of you who should know better realise that these individuals would not be put on a no fly list for these actions. It is disingenuous for those on the loony left fringe to suggest that those of us applauding Qantas's actions in this particular case would support such action.
Is it reasonable for someone to hold an aircraft full of passengers hostage while they conduct a politically motivated demonstration on board an aircraft, in the process of such demonstration refuse crew instructions to be seated and fasten a seat belt? Absolutely not!
Now let me head off the next protestations before they begin. True, the article in question in the SMH suggests that all Mr Leary did was decide to leave the aircraft. He and his colleague had no prior knowledge of the demonstration, and were in no way involved in the demonstration. I call "Pigs Ar$e" on all of these points. Don't believe everything you read. The article is firmly biased towards the point of view of Mr Leary. I suspect Mr Leary was well and truly involved before he even boarded the aircraft, and had made his decision to be part of a protest accordingly. In fact, I'd go so far to suggest it was the reason he was on that particular flight in the first place. Or it could be just a coincidence that two members of a social justice organisation just happened to be on a flight to Darwin, the very same flight on which a political demonstration was planned, by a total stranger. The first time, to my knowledge, that an Australian commercial flight has been used for a political demonstration. How gullible are you?
I know for a fact that if Mr Leary's article in the SMH were factual, he would not have found himself on a no fly list. You would not find yourself on a no fly list for simply deciding at push back you wanted to get off, regardless of the reasons for deciding such.
Interestingly, Leary, has filed a complaint with the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal’s human rights division on the grounds that he is being discriminated against because of his political beliefs. Think about this carefully. The basis of his complaint is that Qantas has, supposedly, breached his human rights to his political beliefs. This fact suggests to me that the truth is far from what is printed in the SMH article and Leary knows it.
Last edited by IsDon; 5th Mar 2015 at 08:04.
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For heaven's sake!
Why didn't these wankers try this at Crown Casino or similar locations blocking patron access to protest their cause?
Quite simple. They knew they would have been ejected summarily with force similar to the utilisation of airstairs, induced forward motion and gravity.
The aforementioned chinless wonders are a noisy minority and the silent majority is VERY pleased that a Visa overstaying illegal is gone. There are procedures in place and to the dicks that choose to disrupt other members of the majority in pursuit of an overall unpopular cause, look forward to the joys of taking the bus.
All we need now is Greenpiss photoshopped series of photos damning the flight crew. They are good at that!
The Airline should be suing them for delay time under BREACH OF CONTRACT - you know - that thing that is delivered with every e ticket with terms and conditions of travel but nobody ever reads.
Look on the positive side - there is now one less illegal to drive a cab on his 2nd cousin's license.
EWL
Why didn't these wankers try this at Crown Casino or similar locations blocking patron access to protest their cause?
Quite simple. They knew they would have been ejected summarily with force similar to the utilisation of airstairs, induced forward motion and gravity.
The aforementioned chinless wonders are a noisy minority and the silent majority is VERY pleased that a Visa overstaying illegal is gone. There are procedures in place and to the dicks that choose to disrupt other members of the majority in pursuit of an overall unpopular cause, look forward to the joys of taking the bus.
All we need now is Greenpiss photoshopped series of photos damning the flight crew. They are good at that!
The Airline should be suing them for delay time under BREACH OF CONTRACT - you know - that thing that is delivered with every e ticket with terms and conditions of travel but nobody ever reads.
Look on the positive side - there is now one less illegal to drive a cab on his 2nd cousin's license.
EWL
You guys crack me up! You go on about noisy minorities & silent majorities but are carrying on wonderfully in here.
Mods: what on earth has all this political circle jerking got to do with aviation?????
Mods: what on earth has all this political circle jerking got to do with aviation?????
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I would think that if the event took place on an aircraft that it has everything to do with aviation? No?
You blokes go out of your way to prove how Centrist, Left, Non Judgemental you are. You have no clue what the security assessment was but you'll protest anyway. Fools, giving the benefit of the doubt to criminals. You'll place flowers at Martin Place but that same benefit of the doubt has killed two innocent Australian citizens, their families wearing the bull**** you are happy to have living amongst us.
You blokes go out of your way to prove how Centrist, Left, Non Judgemental you are. You have no clue what the security assessment was but you'll protest anyway. Fools, giving the benefit of the doubt to criminals. You'll place flowers at Martin Place but that same benefit of the doubt has killed two innocent Australian citizens, their families wearing the bull**** you are happy to have living amongst us.
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The aviation content in your post? Zero yet again.
I would think that if the event took place on an aircraft that it has everything to do with aviation? No?
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Mods............Mods.............Mods...............Can we please eliminate all non aviation content..............Mods, please, cos aviation only is soooooooo interesting & stimulating..............mods...............mods............ ..
