Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Jetstar Second Officer Plans

Old 11th Feb 2015, 08:02
  #21 (permalink)  
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C'mon guys this wasn't created to start bagging cadets or arguing if the cadetships over...

I think FBN is talking about inductions into the course, which run on a 6 monthly basis originally. Last 2 never got recruited to start training .

Anyway back to SO's no cadets vs DE opportunity arguing there's other threads for it!
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Old 11th Feb 2015, 08:59
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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FBN is nothing but a Wannebe who will never BE!
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Old 11th Feb 2015, 17:18
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Smile

Righto,
Let's get back on topic, shall we? It's NOT about DE pilots or cadets, it's about Jetstar SO plans.
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Old 12th Feb 2015, 11:19
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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It's basically to cover current cadets on the 787 who can't act as PIC when senior crew take rest because they don't have an ATPL. Joke you say? No ones laughing

You are a clown! AviatoR21, those cadets who have been in JQ for 4 years now are all FOs. Enjoy GA!
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Old 16th Feb 2015, 01:52
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Looks like the program worked well for those who got selected, and then performed to program standards. From TIFs/SPLs to FO on widebodies in about five years on circa $ 150K to $ 200K.

How long would it take to be an A330FO at Virgin ? 8 years you might think , then add the ten years GA/Regional prior to the job. Only trickle feed to VARA anyways

Think A330 at QF would be around 15 years , but then again they aren't hiring
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Old 16th Feb 2015, 03:00
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Looks like the program worked well for those who got selected, and then performed to program standards. From TIFs/SPLs to FO on widebodies in about five years on circa $ 150K to $ 200K
You mean the heroes that signed up for NZD$55k, no super, $150k in debt and got bailed out by the union? Yeah good for them...
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Old 16th Feb 2015, 04:23
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Still worked out well for them, they have had training costs cancelled, a healthy payout from the company, an EBA seniority number, 320 and 787 type rating and over $100,000 per year. Not bad for guys only out of flying school 3-4 years ago. Compare that with say a Jetstar NZ FO who had to pay Jetstar $40,000 for the endorsement, has no right of move to OZ and is earning less, only comparing them as so many cadets are now on LWOP in NZ on a supremely better deal than the ex-link experienced guys who are already there.
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Old 16th Feb 2015, 05:47
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Well I think a lot of people would happily trade places with a 25 year old who is now flying an A330 or 787 on at least $150K or up to $200K if you chase overtime.

The debt would be cleaned out pretty quickly on that kind of dough, program cost was $130K I think , or about the same as Sharps

As mentioned for some cadets portions of the training , J* might have refunded
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Old 16th Feb 2015, 06:19
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Yep, no argument from me that they've ended up doing well - but that wasn't what they originally signed up to was it... A new low was set when that scheme started.
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Old 16th Feb 2015, 06:25
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It was more luck than good planning!
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Old 16th Feb 2015, 06:38
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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How are cadets any different to anyone who joined and paid for a type rating? Seems the same to me.
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Old 16th Feb 2015, 06:50
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It was only through active legal work from the pilot unions, represented by guys who had earnt their stripes the old way that the cadets got the leg up.

Pretty much why the cast program is now on the nose and not being pursued as energetically as in the past.
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Old 16th Feb 2015, 07:16
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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The "old way" had the company pay for the Type rating while paying a training pay didn't it?
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Old 16th Feb 2015, 07:36
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There will be no more type rating costs at Jetstar.

So yes, the days of paying your type rating should be over. In Australia anyway.
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Old 16th Feb 2015, 07:46
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Well that is very good news.
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Old 16th Feb 2015, 11:53
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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What they could do is get work experience kids (yr 10) from around Australia to fill in. Wouldn't have to pay them and pick them up end of year 12 for the cadetship!

All you need is a few only courses and it should be fine.
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Old 17th Feb 2015, 01:35
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Well let's just hope they do better than the GA astronauts who nearly dropped an Airbus on its guts while trying to find Avalon.
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Old 17th Feb 2015, 04:08
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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GA astronauts who nearly dropped an Airbus on its guts while trying to find Avalon.
A bit like the cadets were doing to the A321 hey FBN. They injured that many F/As they were restricted to 12 months on the 320 before they were put onto the 321. The "GA astronauts" were endorsed on the 321 as soon as they completed line training. Must be something to having appropriate experience after all.
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Old 17th Feb 2015, 08:21
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks SB. I'm fully aware of what FBN is but I just couldn't resist. The best way to shut him up is present him with indisputable facts, even if what I said was a little bit condescending. I fly with cadets all the time and am very aware of their strengths and their weaknesses.

I am fully supportive of any move by Jetstar to put cadets into a Second Officer position before becoming an F/O.

Last edited by Lookleft; 17th Feb 2015 at 08:35.
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Old 17th Feb 2015, 10:55
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Look left,

Do the cadets do the same skill test/ licence proficiency test at Direct entry FOs? Do they need to pass the same checks as other pilots every 6 months? If you are saying they don't get checked the same and are deficient you need to inform your regulator.

Cadets are the way the industry is headed. The A320 and 737 are the old 206 and 210s in most of the world now. With a proper training scheme they seem to progress alright. If you are having a problem in Jetstar with them, I suggest you blame your training department.

SO is a thing for bean counters only. I find it hard to believe any pilot would think it a good idea. It makes for a cheaper flight deck crew only. The best way of learning is being in a control seat, just like how you and I learnt the trade. Multiple sectors in a 320 or 737 will quickly get them up to speed. Sitting in the back seat only increases a managers bonus.

And yes, I (and lots of others) too fly with cadets.

Last edited by donpizmeov; 17th Feb 2015 at 11:14.
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